Does anyone else get these? I've found that any free-glutamate food causes me to twitch (in moderate doses) and fatigue (in high doses)
The worst offender so far was a packet of chips (yeast), and a very MSG-laden Italian restaurant meal.
I realize that the mayo-MSG myth is half based off racism, but I think there's a kernel of truth, which is that too much free-glutamate just causes cellular excitation. Meaning the cell is expending energy faster than it can create it.
The Mayo myth is indeed mostly racist but iirc there are actually a small minority of people who do actually have an allergic reaction towards MSG.
While that's probably also true, my reaction is definitely not an allergy.
but it's not racist if it's against :lmayo: and :anti-italian-action:
the racist part is mayos assuming that ONLY East Asian restaurants ever use MSG. Tons of Italian places, maybe even most, also do it. Any white wine sauce, if lacking in cream, is definitely flavored with MSG because otherwise it would taste like nothing (or require very labor-intensive cooking to make it taste good, which obvs doesn't happen)
What do you propose the mechanism for this excitation is? Have you done any double-blind experiments on this? What quantity of glutamate causes twitching?
IDK what the mechanism is but it's common knowledge in medical literature that glutamates are "excitatory". While certain other agents (zinc, magnesium, among others) are "inhibitory".
I don't know what the quantity of glutamate actually is bc that's not on the nutrition label. But in order of decreasing intensity, for a "sensible, moderate" dose:
Torula yeast containing chips > soy sauce > baby oyster mushrooms (adults are fine) > really chunky (aka concentrated) tomato sauce
I've never used MSG, only eaten it in restaurants, so idk what the dose is. But obviously it's the easiest to get wrong because of the high concentration, and the worst case I had was at an Italian restaurant
Im pretty sure glutamate is metabolized first pass, like biologically it's unlikely to be causing cns excitation just from eating it unless you're eating like a SHITLOAD of glutamate or have some kind of sensitivity. I think I've mightve heard about glutamate metabolites being associated with alzheimers - I dunno, I'd have to check. I wonder if your reacting to something else in common with those foods.
You should probably talk to a doctor about that stuff you shouldnt be getting tremors or fatigue out of nowhere especially if youre younger than 45.
My mom has that too. Glutamate should be too polar to normally cross the blood-brain barrier, but it would not surprise me if there was some kind of genetic polymorphism that does make it cross in small amounts. It would explain your and my mom's symptoms.
How are you sure that it's crossing the BBB, and not causing those symptoms through some other pathway?
I guess I'm not completely sure. But I associate those symptoms with excess glutamate in the central nervous system, which I've experienced from benzo withdrawal and read a lot about. It could also be happening in the peripheral nervous system as glutamate receptors are also expressed there, but I'll admit that I don't know much about glutamate's role outside of the CNS.
I also get no symptoms when eating meat. It's specifically the free glutamates (imagine meat being whole wheat bread and soy sauce being white flour) which cause problems.
The twitching is very subtle, usually in the tiny muscles attached to the fingers. Maybe eyes too, can't remember. But they're so small you wouldn't be able to see it by looking.
Definitely not an allergy. There's no hives/itching/redness or anything histamine-like.
Nope but I'd caution against jumping to a mechanistic explanation. Bodies are dumb and complicated. If you do experience an effect and it actually is glutamate, it could just as easily be that the microbes in your gut are doing things that mess with your CNS. Or any other host of things. Aside from MSG, all of those other things are whole-ass foods that could also be allergens for you (MSG also could be but it's not super likely for a given person to be).
Are you sure it simply isn't an electrolyte imbalance? Tomato paste usually has a lot of salt, as with soy sauce. Too much salt can cause twitching. Too little salt can cause it. Too much potassium and too little as well. In fact, pretty much any electrolyte that is tied to your muscles will cause it. Dehydration can cause it too.
If you're on any anti-depressants that mess with serotonin, it can cause twitching as it's the neurotransmitter used for fine muscle movement.
Are you sure it simply isn’t an electrolyte imbalance?
100% sure because other much saltier foods don't do it. No medications either
