Ok, but there is no more a black race (much less "Asian" or whatever other massively sweeping descriptors self-described white people have come up with) than a white one. These groups are constructed, not founded in any factual basis. They're real in their consequences because they're either A. genuinely believed to be real or B. used cynically for material benefit.
yes, this is true, but the "white race" is especially dumb because there seems to be some kind of arbitrary scale of whiteness that determines if you belong or not.
It's not really arbitrary. I have indigenous and former slave ancestors, but I appear white and receive all the benefits of being white in the US. I'm sure my miscegenation would keep me out of the white ethnostate eventually, but the non deranged white liberals accept me, and right now that's all that matters.
I think your interpretation of "arbitrary" might be different from my meaning. I can say with absolute certainty what blood type someone has, there is no room for opinion in that determination. It is not arbitrary, it is a category based on something measurable. Race, on the other hand, arises out of both the beliefs of the viewer and the characteristics of the viewed. What one person might consider white, another might not, making it arbitrary. On a systemic level, the decision to consider one ethnicity white or one not-white is not grounded in any meaningful difference, it's based on the wants and desires of a small group of people.
Yes. I feel like arbitrary means not according to a system or without organization. I agree that the idea of "whiteness" is unscientific, however I feel that there is definitely a set of criteria that the in group uses to determine it, even though it fluctuates over time. I also disagree that the minority is who sets the criteria. I believe capital is fundamentally indifferent with regards to race. In group/out group oppression predates market economies. Capital absolutely exploits racism to its advantage, but I feel like there's an in group who use power to hoard whatever resources aren't gobbled up as profit and that group, in the US at least, sets the terms for who is "white".
Racism is the purview of the dumb and the evil alike. In both cases, they are driven to assert their place in the hierarchy and visible features or cultural practices are a convenient heuristic to use for categorization. It is arbitrary, because an arbitrary system gives immense power to the one who can actually make and enforce decisions.
But the "White Race" includes anyone it wants to include and changes constantly. It has functioned as a tool of the imperial core for its entire existence. The other races seem to exist solely as a reflection of the existence of the "White Race", in that they exist to point out that X ethnic group of people is not part of the in-crowd.
I don't think completely dismissing it as a racist or class reductionist talking point is a good idea. There is more to explore within it but obviously it's a subject that requires a great deal of care in exploring.
I agree. In particular though I think the white race exists at least in part for the economic supremacy of the imperial core. White supremacy by extension has been imperial core supremacy, and whoever is part of the imperial core is deemed to be "white".
It changes constantly because the imperial core itself has changed many times.
None of this is to dismiss ethnicity, which is clearly a separate thing to race.
Ok, but there is no more a black race (much less "Asian" or whatever other massively sweeping descriptors self-described white people have come up with) than a white one. These groups are constructed, not founded in any factual basis. They're real in their consequences because they're either A. genuinely believed to be real or B. used cynically for material benefit.
yes, this is true, but the "white race" is especially dumb because there seems to be some kind of arbitrary scale of whiteness that determines if you belong or not.
It's not really arbitrary. I have indigenous and former slave ancestors, but I appear white and receive all the benefits of being white in the US. I'm sure my miscegenation would keep me out of the white ethnostate eventually, but the non deranged white liberals accept me, and right now that's all that matters.
I think your interpretation of "arbitrary" might be different from my meaning. I can say with absolute certainty what blood type someone has, there is no room for opinion in that determination. It is not arbitrary, it is a category based on something measurable. Race, on the other hand, arises out of both the beliefs of the viewer and the characteristics of the viewed. What one person might consider white, another might not, making it arbitrary. On a systemic level, the decision to consider one ethnicity white or one not-white is not grounded in any meaningful difference, it's based on the wants and desires of a small group of people.
Yes. I feel like arbitrary means not according to a system or without organization. I agree that the idea of "whiteness" is unscientific, however I feel that there is definitely a set of criteria that the in group uses to determine it, even though it fluctuates over time. I also disagree that the minority is who sets the criteria. I believe capital is fundamentally indifferent with regards to race. In group/out group oppression predates market economies. Capital absolutely exploits racism to its advantage, but I feel like there's an in group who use power to hoard whatever resources aren't gobbled up as profit and that group, in the US at least, sets the terms for who is "white".
Racism is the purview of the dumb and the evil alike. In both cases, they are driven to assert their place in the hierarchy and visible features or cultural practices are a convenient heuristic to use for categorization. It is arbitrary, because an arbitrary system gives immense power to the one who can actually make and enforce decisions.
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But the "White Race" includes anyone it wants to include and changes constantly. It has functioned as a tool of the imperial core for its entire existence. The other races seem to exist solely as a reflection of the existence of the "White Race", in that they exist to point out that X ethnic group of people is not part of the in-crowd.
I don't think completely dismissing it as a racist or class reductionist talking point is a good idea. There is more to explore within it but obviously it's a subject that requires a great deal of care in exploring.
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An analysis of race, class, or gender that does not include all three is insufficient and would be improved by their consideration.
I agree. In particular though I think the white race exists at least in part for the economic supremacy of the imperial core. White supremacy by extension has been imperial core supremacy, and whoever is part of the imperial core is deemed to be "white".
It changes constantly because the imperial core itself has changed many times.
None of this is to dismiss ethnicity, which is clearly a separate thing to race.
Can you recommend how I should grow from "people declared themselves white so they could exploit those they considered otherwise"?