So that's your alternative? A violent overthrow of the US government? Ignoring the fact that it's not possible, there would be no Palestinians left by the time it was done. The aid would certainly come to a swift end.
The left (including myself) couldn't gather enough support to nominate Bernie, but you think you can put together a cohesive army to overthrow the US by force? And who's to say the left would even be in control when the smoke cleared? You are just being ridiculous.
So that's your alternative? A violent overthrow of the US government? Ignoring the fact that it's not possible, there would be no Palestinians left by the time it was done. The aid would certainly come to a swift end
It’s not impossible, and with the US aid coming to an end there would also be the end to support of the Israeli settler regime, support which vastly overpowers this aid.
The left (including myself) couldn't gather enough support to nominate Bernie
LMAO.
And who's to say the left would even be in control when the smoke cleared? You are just being ridiculous.
No material analysis. The reason you think the left doesn’t have support in the US is due to opportunism and the dual interests of labor in the imperial core. So, if the dust settles and US interference abroad had crumbled, it would certainly be the left in control. Read Lenin’s Imperialism.
Without foreign assistance, Israel can't exist. With America out of the picture, it would just be Russia or China. Either one would like to grow their influence in the region,band Israel has plenty of technology expertise to offer.
Yes, it's impossible. Out of every ten people you recruit for your little revolution, at least one will be a fed. You'll be done before you even start.
The left does have support in the US. A violent leftist revolution doesn't. Right wing militias would be the least of your concerns. The wealthy of the US have their own private armies and intelligence agencies, not to mention the money to buy foreign support and arms. The dollar wouldn't become worthless until you won.
How did Lenin's revolution end up? The Russia he built is even more of an oligarchy than the US.
Except neither Russia nor China would have anything to gain by taking over the colonial reigns there, this is also racist as fuck because you can't even imagine Palestinians governing themselves.
How did Lenin's revolution end up? The Russia he built is even more of an oligarchy than the US.
Just because you're an amoral smug piece of shit doesn't mean the general public is. Unlike yourself, most people actually don't twist themselves into knots in order to justify their support of genocide.
When have libs even tried to move public opinion to the left lately? Did they try to move public opinion on immigration or did they offer to give the republicans every fascist measure they want for the border?
We were done with you before you even got here, not worth our time
You really cannot see past your upturned nose can you?
You keep implying that the users here are some sort of political action group within the two-party charade of American electoral politics. That the extent of their possibly action is what they post on this niche little corner of the internet.
You may live your life as though every tweet you make is part of some targeted electoral campaign to move the needle in a political horse race, feeling as though that counts as action. But most people here don't.
Most have little time for dead end electoralism. Many could not vote even if they did as they're not from or in the US. People post here for fun, or to share information and ideas, or just to post pictures of cool animals even. Being on a website isn't their entire life, it's not their only concept of action or praxis or organising or whatever you tell yourself you're doing with this nonsense. Their action is done in the real world for the most part, or, if they do organise online, it's in other communities on other terms.
You've done the equivalent of walking into the pub discussion of strangers, with no context or understanding of them or what they're discussing, and loudly telling them all they'll never get win over the electorate with that messaging. They're not trying to, you have no idea what you're even trying to talk about, and you weren't invited to participate in the first place. And yet you seem shocked and confused when they tell you that.
You can't even say the genocide is inevitable but at least you'll get an increased minimum wage with Biden. He's actively creating the false scarcity where reactionaries thrive. He's their partner in this disaster. It doesn't really matter if you vote for him or not because it all leads to genocide, but I'm telling you I'm not voting for him.
Where did you get the idea that I'm a fan of Biden? I'm a realist. If your vote helps swing the election to Trump, the genocide will get worse, but your smugness would be intact.
Genocide is how capitalist crises are resolved. I don't see how this dynamic is changed under Trump or Biden. In fact, this particular genocide has been a multidecade project for both of their parties. They're both in final solution mode. Maybe I'm being smug, but it's also empirical reality. Shit, Biden is already president and he has refused to use the power of his position to stop it, which he could do completely at any moment.
Other than a meaningless air drop that literally kills people by crushing them how would this actually be different with Trump as president? With whatever differences you come up with, are those actually of consequence, or is it a slightly different way to carry out the exact same genocide?
This shit sucks. Don't be mad at the people who notice.
I'm still not seeing a viable alternative. I disagree with your assessment of Biden's power and of the two parties, but that isn't even relevant since I'm not seeing a viable plan or any progress at all by you folks.
Blaming Biden for a few incidental deaths from a single incident is really dumb. There is no method of moving that much food into a crisis area without some risk of fatal accidents.
Trump would simply not supply aid at all. His son in law was just on TV salivating over the cheap beach-front property.
Yes shit sucks. No, you aren't the only ones to notice. Nobody's mad at you for noticing, but dickishness is not a political strategy.
I disagree with your assessment of Biden's power and of the two parties, but that isn't even relevant since I'm not seeing a viable plan or any progress at all by you folks.
Everything they said about the two parties was objectively true. And wow, nobody’s telling me how I can stop the genocide so I guess I’ll just vote for it again.
The adults in the room know that genocide is inevitable, that public opinion has nothing to do with material interests but simply with optics, and that it’s impossible to think outside of electoralism.
So revolution is impossible. Organising a power base outside of electoral politics is impossible. Stopping a genocide is impossible.
So the only solution is to slavishly support and empower the very regime that is actively supporting that genocide, because they unequivocally believe in it and will not be moved regardless of how bad public opinion gets or whether it costs them their positions.
Also, not only do you have to fight your enemy by devoting all your time to making them stronger, but you also have to be super nice and polite to everyone about it, because power and solidarity is actually built from tone policing in advocacy of things you don't believe on small corners of the internet instead of mutual aid and material conditions.
You'd be literally more useful doing nothing. Get out of here with that wrecker bullshit.
No, revolution isn't impossible, at least I don't think so. What revolution takes is a whole lot of hard work, and solid political strategies. The world today is very different from anything that came before. You can't turn a country the size of the US with brute force,band there is no easy button.
Of all the people on this planet who have failed to stop this genocide, you are most definitely one of them, so maybe ease up a bit on telling other people they are doing it wrong.
So that's your alternative? A violent overthrow of the US government? Ignoring the fact that it's not possible
So revolution is possible now, but it comes by empowering the reactionary state regime and attacking those who don't fall in line? You talk about hard work but offer nothing but vague assertions that anything but a slavish dedication to passive electoralism directly opposed to your supposed interests is wrong or impossible. It's wrecker bullshit and I suspect you know it.
Of all the people on this planet who have failed to stop this genocide, you are most definitely one of them
Perhaps I will be, but I'll also know I tried. I'll know I devoted time and money and energy to Palestinian solidarity causes, even long before this most recent escalation of genocide. And, without getting too specific, I'll know that, for example, direct action disrupting the supply of arms to Israel from my country has made a damn sight more positive impact than you shaking your fucking pom poms for the genociders and demanding everyone else dance for them too.
so maybe ease up a bit on telling other people they are doing it wrong.
You came here, to an international community of communists and anarchists who overwhelmingly do not believe in the vapid electoralism of the US, and most of whom couldn't cast a vote even if they did, to browbeat people into not giving tacit support to a reactionary state regime engaged in genocide. While also insisting that any potential alternative is childish, impossible, and harmful. Sounds like this one is on you.
And they won't. The only ones they reply to is where they think they can do some bullshit rhetorical deflection. They'll never justify their position or state their argument clearly, because they're totally full of shit and they know it.
So that's your alternative? A violent overthrow of the US government? Ignoring the fact that it's not possible, there would be no Palestinians left by the time it was done. The aid would certainly come to a swift end.
The left (including myself) couldn't gather enough support to nominate Bernie, but you think you can put together a cohesive army to overthrow the US by force? And who's to say the left would even be in control when the smoke cleared? You are just being ridiculous.
It’s not impossible, and with the US aid coming to an end there would also be the end to support of the Israeli settler regime, support which vastly overpowers this aid.
LMAO.
No material analysis. The reason you think the left doesn’t have support in the US is due to opportunism and the dual interests of labor in the imperial core. So, if the dust settles and US interference abroad had crumbled, it would certainly be the left in control. Read Lenin’s Imperialism.
Without foreign assistance, Israel can't exist. With America out of the picture, it would just be Russia or China. Either one would like to grow their influence in the region,band Israel has plenty of technology expertise to offer.
Yes, it's impossible. Out of every ten people you recruit for your little revolution, at least one will be a fed. You'll be done before you even start.
The left does have support in the US. A violent leftist revolution doesn't. Right wing militias would be the least of your concerns. The wealthy of the US have their own private armies and intelligence agencies, not to mention the money to buy foreign support and arms. The dollar wouldn't become worthless until you won.
How did Lenin's revolution end up? The Russia he built is even more of an oligarchy than the US.
Except neither Russia nor China would have anything to gain by taking over the colonial reigns there, this is also racist as fuck because you can't even imagine Palestinians governing themselves.
Please fuck off liberal.
Nothing happened in Russia between 1924 and 1991, no sir.
How did Lenin's revolution end up? The Russia he built is even more of an oligarchy than the US.
deleted by creator
I’m making fun of the other user
Oops
That reply pretty much does my argument for me. This is not a group that will ever move public opinion on anything.
Just because you're an amoral smug piece of shit doesn't mean the general public is. Unlike yourself, most people actually don't twist themselves into knots in order to justify their support of genocide.
When have libs even tried to move public opinion to the left lately? Did they try to move public opinion on immigration or did they offer to give the republicans every fascist measure they want for the border?
We were done with you before you even got here, not worth our time
You really cannot see past your upturned nose can you?
You keep implying that the users here are some sort of political action group within the two-party charade of American electoral politics. That the extent of their possibly action is what they post on this niche little corner of the internet.
You may live your life as though every tweet you make is part of some targeted electoral campaign to move the needle in a political horse race, feeling as though that counts as action. But most people here don't.
Most have little time for dead end electoralism. Many could not vote even if they did as they're not from or in the US. People post here for fun, or to share information and ideas, or just to post pictures of cool animals even. Being on a website isn't their entire life, it's not their only concept of action or praxis or organising or whatever you tell yourself you're doing with this nonsense. Their action is done in the real world for the most part, or, if they do organise online, it's in other communities on other terms.
You've done the equivalent of walking into the pub discussion of strangers, with no context or understanding of them or what they're discussing, and loudly telling them all they'll never get win over the electorate with that messaging. They're not trying to, you have no idea what you're even trying to talk about, and you weren't invited to participate in the first place. And yet you seem shocked and confused when they tell you that.
deleted by creator
You can't even say the genocide is inevitable but at least you'll get an increased minimum wage with Biden. He's actively creating the false scarcity where reactionaries thrive. He's their partner in this disaster. It doesn't really matter if you vote for him or not because it all leads to genocide, but I'm telling you I'm not voting for him.
Where did you get the idea that I'm a fan of Biden? I'm a realist. If your vote helps swing the election to Trump, the genocide will get worse, but your smugness would be intact.
Genocide is how capitalist crises are resolved. I don't see how this dynamic is changed under Trump or Biden. In fact, this particular genocide has been a multidecade project for both of their parties. They're both in final solution mode. Maybe I'm being smug, but it's also empirical reality. Shit, Biden is already president and he has refused to use the power of his position to stop it, which he could do completely at any moment.
Other than a meaningless air drop that literally kills people by crushing them how would this actually be different with Trump as president? With whatever differences you come up with, are those actually of consequence, or is it a slightly different way to carry out the exact same genocide?
This shit sucks. Don't be mad at the people who notice.
I'm still not seeing a viable alternative. I disagree with your assessment of Biden's power and of the two parties, but that isn't even relevant since I'm not seeing a viable plan or any progress at all by you folks.
Blaming Biden for a few incidental deaths from a single incident is really dumb. There is no method of moving that much food into a crisis area without some risk of fatal accidents.
Trump would simply not supply aid at all. His son in law was just on TV salivating over the cheap beach-front property.
Yes shit sucks. No, you aren't the only ones to notice. Nobody's mad at you for noticing, but dickishness is not a political strategy.
Everything they said about the two parties was objectively true. And wow, nobody’s telling me how I can stop the genocide so I guess I’ll just vote for it again.
The adults in the room know that genocide is inevitable, that public opinion has nothing to do with material interests but simply with optics, and that it’s impossible to think outside of electoralism.
So revolution is impossible. Organising a power base outside of electoral politics is impossible. Stopping a genocide is impossible.
So the only solution is to slavishly support and empower the very regime that is actively supporting that genocide, because they unequivocally believe in it and will not be moved regardless of how bad public opinion gets or whether it costs them their positions.
Also, not only do you have to fight your enemy by devoting all your time to making them stronger, but you also have to be super nice and polite to everyone about it, because power and solidarity is actually built from tone policing in advocacy of things you don't believe on small corners of the internet instead of mutual aid and material conditions.
You'd be literally more useful doing nothing. Get out of here with that wrecker bullshit.
No, revolution isn't impossible, at least I don't think so. What revolution takes is a whole lot of hard work, and solid political strategies. The world today is very different from anything that came before. You can't turn a country the size of the US with brute force,band there is no easy button.
Of all the people on this planet who have failed to stop this genocide, you are most definitely one of them, so maybe ease up a bit on telling other people they are doing it wrong.
You, in one of the above comments:
So revolution is possible now, but it comes by empowering the reactionary state regime and attacking those who don't fall in line? You talk about hard work but offer nothing but vague assertions that anything but a slavish dedication to passive electoralism directly opposed to your supposed interests is wrong or impossible. It's wrecker bullshit and I suspect you know it.
Perhaps I will be, but I'll also know I tried. I'll know I devoted time and money and energy to Palestinian solidarity causes, even long before this most recent escalation of genocide. And, without getting too specific, I'll know that, for example, direct action disrupting the supply of arms to Israel from my country has made a damn sight more positive impact than you shaking your fucking pom poms for the genociders and demanding everyone else dance for them too.
You came here, to an international community of communists and anarchists who overwhelmingly do not believe in the vapid electoralism of the US, and most of whom couldn't cast a vote even if they did, to browbeat people into not giving tacit support to a reactionary state regime engaged in genocide. While also insisting that any potential alternative is childish, impossible, and harmful. Sounds like this one is on you.
deleted by creator
They didn't respond to this one
And they won't. The only ones they reply to is where they think they can do some bullshit rhetorical deflection. They'll never justify their position or state their argument clearly, because they're totally full of shit and they know it.