right but you run into the contradiction that the uber worker by that classification is also bourgeois
also, many people can't afford to get into debt to buy the car either, so that makes them bourgs as well i guess, that's a barrier of entry right there and is kinda arbitrary
i also am not placing a moral category on them i just don't think marx even dealt with the question of piecmeal work in this way either and also i think these definitions are lacking if we walk ourselves into an argument that uber workers that ofen make below minimum wage are bourgs because they own the means of production and dont get paid a wage. owner operator truckers are just a more contradictory example of the above, so if we are classing one group of them as workers we should the other and the quantitative difference in the price of the tools doesn't matter
Also I would sooner concede that Uber drivers have some petty bourgeois interests than I would concede that truck owner-operators share proletarian interests if you really insist on drawing the lines this way. If you knew these people you would see this clearly, these petty bourgeois owner-operator types are often wildly reactionary and anti-worker in a way I have not experienced while working prole positions
if you read what i wrote i did not defend them. i called them reactionary and scabs and i do think the extra money they make vs uber drivers makes them that way and makes them more likely to be that way. we should definitely focus more on the uber workers than them in terms of trying to get them class conscious. earlier i wrote a post that I edited out that basically said the same thing and said these accounting categories aren't super useful sometimes but what is important is class consciousness and that there are reactoinary layers of proletarians as well so we have to be careful with these definitions and who we try to organize with. anyway i wanna back away from hexbear for a bit to do some IRL stuff but i think we can agree on some things and disagree to degree on others so ill leave it here for now
Uber drivers are indeed paid a wage, and they receive tips which doesn’t alter their wage relation (most people who get tips are proletarian).
Again, owning a car is obviously not prohibitive to most of the population since most of the adult American population has one. The fact that some cannot afford one does not change this.
A personal home owner is not bourgeois. A landlord who owns that same home and rents it out is. The addition of mortgage or debts doesn’t alter this either. The actual property does not physically change but it goes from personal to private property when it goes from a home owned by the resident to one owned by a 3rd party and rented out. That change is due to 1) most people cannot afford multiple houses, cost prohibitive barrier to entry and 2) the act of profit generation from this.
An Uber driver is not receiving profit. They are being paid a wage. The common car is just the prerequisite they need to qualify for this proletarian position. If cars were so expensive that only a few people could get them, car owners (including uber drivers) would wield way more power in such a society of rare cars. That’s not America right now though.
Truck owner-operators are receiving a profit. They are not being paid a wage. The capital intensive rare truck is the prerequisite for the petty bourgeois position. Trucks are so expensive and normally unnecessary that owners (including owner-operators) do wield way more power in this society. That’s America right now.
right but you run into the contradiction that the uber worker by that classification is also bourgeois
also, many people can't afford to get into debt to buy the car either, so that makes them bourgs as well i guess, that's a barrier of entry right there and is kinda arbitrary
i also am not placing a moral category on them i just don't think marx even dealt with the question of piecmeal work in this way either and also i think these definitions are lacking if we walk ourselves into an argument that uber workers that ofen make below minimum wage are bourgs because they own the means of production and dont get paid a wage. owner operator truckers are just a more contradictory example of the above, so if we are classing one group of them as workers we should the other and the quantitative difference in the price of the tools doesn't matter
Also I would sooner concede that Uber drivers have some petty bourgeois interests than I would concede that truck owner-operators share proletarian interests if you really insist on drawing the lines this way. If you knew these people you would see this clearly, these petty bourgeois owner-operator types are often wildly reactionary and anti-worker in a way I have not experienced while working prole positions
if you read what i wrote i did not defend them. i called them reactionary and scabs and i do think the extra money they make vs uber drivers makes them that way and makes them more likely to be that way. we should definitely focus more on the uber workers than them in terms of trying to get them class conscious. earlier i wrote a post that I edited out that basically said the same thing and said these accounting categories aren't super useful sometimes but what is important is class consciousness and that there are reactoinary layers of proletarians as well so we have to be careful with these definitions and who we try to organize with. anyway i wanna back away from hexbear for a bit to do some IRL stuff but i think we can agree on some things and disagree to degree on others so ill leave it here for now
Uber drivers are indeed paid a wage, and they receive tips which doesn’t alter their wage relation (most people who get tips are proletarian).
Again, owning a car is obviously not prohibitive to most of the population since most of the adult American population has one. The fact that some cannot afford one does not change this.
A personal home owner is not bourgeois. A landlord who owns that same home and rents it out is. The addition of mortgage or debts doesn’t alter this either. The actual property does not physically change but it goes from personal to private property when it goes from a home owned by the resident to one owned by a 3rd party and rented out. That change is due to 1) most people cannot afford multiple houses, cost prohibitive barrier to entry and 2) the act of profit generation from this.
An Uber driver is not receiving profit. They are being paid a wage. The common car is just the prerequisite they need to qualify for this proletarian position. If cars were so expensive that only a few people could get them, car owners (including uber drivers) would wield way more power in such a society of rare cars. That’s not America right now though.
Truck owner-operators are receiving a profit. They are not being paid a wage. The capital intensive rare truck is the prerequisite for the petty bourgeois position. Trucks are so expensive and normally unnecessary that owners (including owner-operators) do wield way more power in this society. That’s America right now.