But people said the same thing about photography and painting 150 years ago!

This is entirely different from that. Landscaping had aesthetic value after photography because people were able to embellish and stylize landscapes in ways they didn't actually exist in real life. There is no way to "escape" from AI into more stylization. All it takes is enough of those new stylized images and it'll be able to replicate it. This is different from photography because photography can't learn.

But people want human expression!

Yes, they do, but they'll probably only realize this after a couple decades of art [almost] completely uninspired by the human condition and depression and anxiety skyrockets. In the short term, people will only care that they can type into a field and get what they want without any significant investment. Good luck finding an art job that isn't just making prompts in that economy (And if you say that making prompts is the same as being a painter or illustrator, yes it is art but no it isn't the same and fuck you).

I rest my case, art automation is cool but under capitalism it'll only be used to devalue artists further, and drive them deeper into poverty. It would be a great tool in a society capable of regulating itself but WE DON'T LIVE IN THAT SOCIETY AND I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO POINT THAT OUT.

STOP LISTENING TO :melon-musk: :debatebro-l: AND SUPPORT YOUR ARTIST COMRADES NOW

Now that I got your attention with my inflammatory statements, please commission your artist comrades and support them in their struggle to exist in what is already a very punishing world to live in. I promise to give any of you that do big hugs, I love you all, and bye.

  • Gamer_time [he/him]
    ·
    2 years ago

    :lenin-sure:

    They are workers because they sell their own labor power, sure they own their own means, but they (in most cases, afaik) do not exploit others nor seek rent, they survive solely on their own work. Or take an artist working for a company with company equipment, suddenly they do not own their own means anymore, just their labor power which they are then selling. Magically, the artist now fits in with the usual description of a worker.

    • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]
      ·
      2 years ago

      In the second part of your writing you described a Contract worker..

      An Artists for me is a One Man Company , it Sells his Talent and therefore is the Monopolist of his Talent. If he has a Boss of course he is a Worker but a classic "Artist " is pretty solid in the petit Bourgouise Class..

      • Gamer_time [he/him]
        ·
        2 years ago

        But one of the Bourgeoisie class exploits others, the classic artist doesn't. :jesse-wtf:

        • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]
          ·
          2 years ago

          yeah .. so

          he owns his means of Production.

          he Sets the Price for his own Labour

          he is in no Autority Structure

          he is a Specialist whos labour is not easy to replace (until now)

          he has no Contract or Wage

          he is Petit Bourgoise

                • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  Yeah

                  "The term is politico-economic and references historical materialism. It originally denoted a sub-stratum of the middle classes in the 18th and early-19th centuries. In the mid-19th century, the German economist Karl Marx and other Marxist theorists used the term petite bourgeoisie to identify the socio-economic stratum of the bourgeoisie that consists of small shopkeepers and self-employed artisans.[2][3][4] "

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petite_bourgeoisie

                  Are we done now ?

                    • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]
                      ·
                      2 years ago

                      CONTRACT WORKERS ARE NOT ARTISANS ;

                      they have a CONCTRACT with their EMPLOYER , ABOUT HOW THEY WILL SPEND THEIR LABOUR .

                      They are SELLING THEIR LABOUR to their Contract Holder ..

                      Your Literally denying the Offical Definition ...

                        • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]
                          ·
                          2 years ago

                          You define everybody involved with ART as an ARTIST ... thats wrong in a Class Definition , please devide the Class definition from your classical "Job Categories"

                          The Artist is NOT in A Contrcat but is Producer! , Seller! and Profiteur! of his own Product. ---> Petit Bourgoise.

                          If he can not Sell his own Art on the Market , then hes just a Dude with a Hobby , no matter what he tells his Parents . If he has A Contract he is a Worker that calls himselfs "artist".

                          Class is defined by the Market Relations.

                            • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]
                              ·
                              2 years ago

                              yeah so ...

                              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petite_bourgeoisie

                              So far artists have been (according to you) Petite bourgoise, bourgoise, boheme, artisans and contract workers

                              Okay lets make it Clearer .. Sucessfull Artisans Are Petite Bourgoise up to Haute Bourgoise

                              Unsuccessfull Artist will end up as Contract Workers... for the Petite Bourgoise or haute Bourgoise Artisan

                              the Boheme is more of a Social Class / sphere the Succesfull ad Unsuccesfull artisans Mingle connecting both Speheres..

                              these are 19th century definitions so dont get to worked up over it

                              there are many definitions as there are Many speheres . like the Law Definition in Germany is afaik : Your an Artist if you have the "Gewerbeschein" and sold Art of more then 5000€ worth or something ..

                              So i can not follow this hole "artist is artist because he makes Art"

                              like yes hat is also right thats like "Generall Knowledge" Definition..

                                • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]
                                  ·
                                  2 years ago

                                  Let me reitegrade again

                                  Artisans belong to the Petit-Bourgoise in Marxist Class Theory.

                                  that you call everything not on the Trees after the Count to 3 an "Artist" is your Problem and makes your hole conversation useless blabber ...

                                  Again even following your literal definition you’re wrong. The majority of artists WORKERS do not own the means of production, they do not set their own wages or hours, they do not exist outside of other hierarchies.

                                    • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]
                                      ·
                                      2 years ago

                                      nope

                                      i can not answer a question thats not asked ... i dont do "Discoussion on the Syle of Discussion" Meta Shit , but i think its Funny that you dont state the so important Question like ever.. then accuse me of not answering it I dont even think there is a Discussion going on to be Honest ..

                                      I informed you of an offical definition. And probably some things got lost in Translation .. But the Subject of the "Dissoussion" is settled. All of this Hostility following is more direected against the Messanger then he Message , and sure theres always potential to deliver it better ,.. "feel the Room" and all of that. But thats not really of Substance.

                                      Also there is a culturall differencee working here

                                      A - You search for the "Absolute" Definition, fitting all Speheres - Where i come from there is Diffrent Spehers necesscitating different Definitions.. So No Search for Absoluts.. "Boheme " serves the exactly the purpose of adressing the Problem of the "Artisan Definition" to be this inbeetween thing , that Artisans obviously are ..

                                      B - You Think I try to attack Artist .. Art in some kind of Chud way.. I got one comment with "Pat soc" ?, so I assume this is what creates this hostility .. ? I fucking lovee Art and Artist and all of that shit. How Boring and Gray would be the World without the Muses and their Messangers ?

                                      .. thats this very nasty thing with Anglosphere Culture ,there Konversation is not Subjet oriented but Person oriented, therefore the Goal is to Establish a Winner instead Wisdom. It happens in the Internet with th Anglossphere , I think even the Schools have debate Clubs and all Debates are allways framed after a Winner? , theres Never a "What new Wisdoms did we get" framing but a "Who Won ? " Framing , totally derailing a Konversation. Giant Psy Ops..

                                      So lets just settle it in the 2 Main Spheres

                                      1. Sphere The Wisdom aquired

                                      2. Sphere Who Won ?

                                      I am Deranged and all of the other Words , do the worst kind of Dissussion.. change definition.. all of that .. Yes yes .. Sorry I am very sorry for that.. please lets end it here.. take your Trophy and leave me to my ....

              • DeleteriousDanforth [he/him]
                ·
                2 years ago

                funny how this kind of dogmatism runs exactly counter to real material conditions. being a contract worker in 2022 means nothing more than not being eligible for healthcare, overtime, stock grants, etc

                    • Huldra [they/them, it/its]
                      ·
                      2 years ago

                      Oh my god this guy is on about fucking art again? Last time he was insisting that you couldnt understand modern art without having gone through a full college education and just kept going on about this fucking bullshit "oooh i bow to your superior education".

                    • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]
                      ·
                      2 years ago

                      just read up ..

                      ist im Allgemeinen eine Bezeichnung des wohlhabenden Bürgertums oder im Marxismus die Bezeichnung der herrschenden sozialen Klasse der Gesellschaft, die der Klasse des Proletariats gegenübersteht und manchmal auch zur Abgrenzung gegenüber der (künstlerischen) Bohème verwendet wird.

                      Im Gegensatz zur beherrschten und ausgebeuteten Klasse der Arbeiter, deren Angehörige nur ihre auf dem Arbeitsmarkt zu verkaufende Arbeitskraft besitzen, sind die Groß unfd Kleinbürger daher Eigentümer der entscheidenden Produktionsmittel (etwa Fabriken, Transportmittel, Bodenschätze) und können mit deren Hilfe – und durch die Ausbeutung der Arbeiter (just one Indicator not THE Indicator) – ihren Kapitalbesitz beständig vermehren.

                      https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgeoisie

                • ThomasMuentzner [he/him, comrade/them]
                  ·
                  2 years ago

                  its one of the indicators yes.. not the Single Indikator for me

                  ownership of the means to procude and ownership of the Product is pretty important as well