I haven't actually watched her videos in an age but I remember finding it an overly simplistic takedown of some very basic tropes, but I ended up disagreeing with a number of examples she brought up.
Like it's really obvious that Peach or Zelda don't need to always be the damsel but they pretty much always are. I've heard so many people talk about a reversed Zelda game where Zelda is the playable character going to save a damsel Link and it sounds so much more interesting.
Honestly it's fucking wild just how deranged a number of people got over her applying super simplistic analysis to the point you had entire personalities rise up, like the guy that was super racist with the skull on his bookshelf, or that other guy that was super racist that looked like he crawled out of an 80s basement, or that other guy that was super racist that screamed racial slurs online, or that other really racist guy that also wanted to be a filmmaker. Most of Hbomberguy's early works highlight the absolute peak of derangement over this stuff, who the fuck makes a documentary about a woman making a light critique of some games? Like I said before, a reversed Zelda would be interesting to see, it would reverse some tropes and be an interesting spin on a very tired formula.
like the guy that was super racist with the skull on his bookshelf, or that other guy that was super racist that looked like he crawled out of an 80s basement, or that other guy that was super racist that screamed racial slurs online, or that other really racist guy that also wanted to be a filmmaker.
I know each of these people without being named. :agony-4horsemen:
I don't know why you'd go so far as to have Zelda rescuing Link, though. They're different people every game, you can just have today's Link be a girl and today's Zelda be a prince. It's 100% canon-compliant and preserves the branding of the hero with the iconic green nightcap.
The point is not that girl hero rescuing boy damsel is more interesting, it's that this would be an interesting subversion of the prophesy core to the Zelda mythology. If Link fails early and it is Zelda who has to step up and be the proactive hero, that's a subversion not just of out-of-game tropes, but in-universe tropes as well. Zelda would have to face someone else's destiny, and challenges which require someone else's skills. The bad guy could even have underestimated and ignored her specifically because historically (or mythologically, it's hard to tell which in this universe) it was the other hero who was directly responsible for the prevention of evil.
Fundamentally, it's interesting to see someone thrust into a situation they aren't prepared for, to build skills and face challenges which are unusual to them. In Breath of the Wild, Link is an experienced knight, a personal bodyguard to the heir of his nation's monarchy. There is no one in the world more fundamentally prepared to pick up a sword and slay goblins and traverse dungeons to save Zelda. It's been done. It would be interesting to see someone who is the least prepared to play that role (because they've been preparing for a different role) take a shot at it.
I’ve heard so many people talk about a reversed Zelda game where Zelda is the playable character going to save a damsel Link and it sounds so much more interesting.
One of the infamous Zelda CD-I games did exactly that IIRC
I just think it's amusing that among all the Zelda games, it was the dollar store knock-off looking non-Nintendo ones with the :morshupls: MS Paint cutscenes that swung for those particular fences
It's a damn shame, because the apparent takeaway message for that disaster was "never have Zelda do anything but be a damsel in distress again."
Even one of my favorites, Wind Waker, takes an interesting and fun and seemingly new pirate character and then the moment she's revealed to be Zelda all the tiresome old beats kick in. :debord-tired:
To be fair, Team Ninja also made the sixth and seventh generation Ninja Gaiden games (OH SHIT THEY'RE ON STEAM NOW :xi-pog:). Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that it wasn't Team Ninja who were responsible for Other M's story and characterisation but rather the Metroid head honcho himself
Like it’s really obvious that Peach or Zelda don’t need to always be the damsel but they pretty much always are
One of the most glaring examples of the Thermian Argument in practice is when some Zelda fans insist that because of a fictional "prophecy" in a 90s Nintendo 64 game, Zelda must always and forever be stuck doing the same story beats as the damsel in distress.
Not really. That's what JRPGs are for. The point of Zelda games is that it's a very simple good versus evil story with fun puzzles, beautiful environments, nice music, and cool little characters. If you want something more complex, just play something else.
if they're really committed to doin le epic Archetypal Hero's Journey thing where it's variations on the same story over and over -- and I don't really have a problem with that choice in itself -- i think what would be really neat was just having a Girl Link and Boy Zelda (or shit, make them lesbyans, but I know Nintendo is too bitchmade to do that). Like they already made Linkle, maybe as a way to test the waters for such a concept,
I'm not opposed to archetypes or even tropes as much as I'm annoyed when it seems like a Zelda game may be trying something different but then recursively returns to the tired old beats the moment Tetra is "Oops! All Damsels" exposed as Zelda.
I haven't actually watched her videos in an age but I remember finding it an overly simplistic takedown of some very basic tropes, but I ended up disagreeing with a number of examples she brought up.
Like it's really obvious that Peach or Zelda don't need to always be the damsel but they pretty much always are. I've heard so many people talk about a reversed Zelda game where Zelda is the playable character going to save a damsel Link and it sounds so much more interesting.
Honestly it's fucking wild just how deranged a number of people got over her applying super simplistic analysis to the point you had entire personalities rise up, like the guy that was super racist with the skull on his bookshelf, or that other guy that was super racist that looked like he crawled out of an 80s basement, or that other guy that was super racist that screamed racial slurs online, or that other really racist guy that also wanted to be a filmmaker. Most of Hbomberguy's early works highlight the absolute peak of derangement over this stuff, who the fuck makes a documentary about a woman making a light critique of some games? Like I said before, a reversed Zelda would be interesting to see, it would reverse some tropes and be an interesting spin on a very tired formula.
I know each of these people without being named. :agony-4horsemen:
Meanwhile I'm over here like :jesse-wtf:
Perhaps ignorance is bliss.
I don't know why you'd go so far as to have Zelda rescuing Link, though. They're different people every game, you can just have today's Link be a girl and today's Zelda be a prince. It's 100% canon-compliant and preserves the branding of the hero with the iconic green nightcap.
The point is not that girl hero rescuing boy damsel is more interesting, it's that this would be an interesting subversion of the prophesy core to the Zelda mythology. If Link fails early and it is Zelda who has to step up and be the proactive hero, that's a subversion not just of out-of-game tropes, but in-universe tropes as well. Zelda would have to face someone else's destiny, and challenges which require someone else's skills. The bad guy could even have underestimated and ignored her specifically because historically (or mythologically, it's hard to tell which in this universe) it was the other hero who was directly responsible for the prevention of evil.
Fundamentally, it's interesting to see someone thrust into a situation they aren't prepared for, to build skills and face challenges which are unusual to them. In Breath of the Wild, Link is an experienced knight, a personal bodyguard to the heir of his nation's monarchy. There is no one in the world more fundamentally prepared to pick up a sword and slay goblins and traverse dungeons to save Zelda. It's been done. It would be interesting to see someone who is the least prepared to play that role (because they've been preparing for a different role) take a shot at it.
One of the infamous Zelda CD-I games did exactly that IIRC
It wasn't bad because of that. There was also a nearly-identical Link game called Faces of Evil for the same system.
I just think it's amusing that among all the Zelda games, it was the dollar store knock-off looking non-Nintendo ones with the :morshupls: MS Paint cutscenes that swung for those particular fences
It's a damn shame, because the apparent takeaway message for that disaster was "never have Zelda do anything but be a damsel in distress again."
Even one of my favorites, Wind Waker, takes an interesting and fun and seemingly new pirate character and then the moment she's revealed to be Zelda all the tiresome old beats kick in. :debord-tired:
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Zelda's cool in spirit tracks. Unfortunately, spirit tracks isn't cool
Nintendo makes Zelda the protagonist in a game...
spoiler
but it's another Other M situation
:very-intelligent: “Zelda, you can’t use the mastersword until I tell you to”
:anarchista-chad: “what the fuck why”
:very-intelligent: “Because I have a dom/sub humiliation fetish and compulsively write it into everything I create”
I still have no idea why nintendo let the sex doll volleyball simulator devs make a metroid game
To be fair, Team Ninja also made the sixth and seventh generation Ninja Gaiden games (OH SHIT THEY'RE ON STEAM NOW :xi-pog:). Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that it wasn't Team Ninja who were responsible for Other M's story and characterisation but rather the Metroid head honcho himself
One of the most glaring examples of the Thermian Argument in practice is when some Zelda fans insist that because of a fictional "prophecy" in a 90s Nintendo 64 game, Zelda must always and forever be stuck doing the same story beats as the damsel in distress.
So boring. Why wouldn’t you want to explore Zelda and Link breaking that cycle and killing the gods who cursed them? So muchhhh more fun
Fiction put that "prophecy" in place. More fiction could just as easily change it in less hyperbolic ways, if there was a will to do so.
Not really. That's what JRPGs are for. The point of Zelda games is that it's a very simple good versus evil story with fun puzzles, beautiful environments, nice music, and cool little characters. If you want something more complex, just play something else.
if they're really committed to doin le epic Archetypal Hero's Journey thing where it's variations on the same story over and over -- and I don't really have a problem with that choice in itself -- i think what would be really neat was just having a Girl Link and Boy Zelda (or shit, make them lesbyans, but I know Nintendo is too bitchmade to do that). Like they already made Linkle, maybe as a way to test the waters for such a concept,
I'm not opposed to archetypes or even tropes as much as I'm annoyed when it seems like a Zelda game may be trying something different but then recursively returns to the tired old beats the moment Tetra is "Oops! All Damsels" exposed as Zelda.
Link and Zelda aren't a couple ever.
okay yea i agree
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