Nier Automata and common gamer opinions remain some of the biggest examples of that one gundam “wow cool robot” meme but instead it’s “wow sexy wammen”
You could probably make some incredibly on-the-nose game about anti-colonial transgender communist prison abolitionists but as long as there were big pairs of yabbos and large butts on screen at all times gamers would probably not notice
But what does sex appeal do for the game, if it's just going to give people a reason to not focus on the overall message?
Like if I'm writing a realistic fiction novel about anti-black racism, what actually is the purpose of using the n-word so liberally or even at all? It's just going to attract chuds who will completely miss the point of the book and put-off the audience I want.
From a narrative perspective, sexualization really should be used sparingly and with a direct purpose, so it doesn't veer into bad taste territory.
So what? We shouldn’t sacrifice a good story or game - or any bad “thing” - because some dumbass will think “wow he’s literally me!” They’ll always think that because conservatism prohibits thinking too hard about anything, otherwise you stray away from Purity.
My point is: that you can still try to mitigate this. Again with my example: I want to avoid an audience of conservatives who will miss the whole point of my work.
So I put in extra effort to avoid talking about race in a distasteful way. I probably will unironically use "n-word" in place of the actual word spelled out if I feel like it will complement whatever theme or point I'm making. Because using the full word is going to attract those people, and people that are interested in reading about race won't be off-put by that either (they might even prefer it).
You can enjoy problematic media, but it's important to call it out.
Consuming problematic media doesn't necessarily make you problematic.
Consuming problematic media doesn't necessarily make you problematic.
I never said it did nor do I believe that was your point. Your point is that we should avoid problematic things just because someone bad will be drawn to it which is absurd. I promise you some racist piece of shit isn't going to watch Atlanta, a show about poor black guys making rap music and calling each other the n word and dealing with white people shenanigans, which includes a lot of racism. Wow. It's almost as if there's a difference between the creators of South Park 'satirizing' a racist person and throwing around slurs about Jews while convincing people that "free speech" is more important than someone's feeling vs. someone with skill making art about the struggles of minorities and making problematic characters say problematic things that contribute to that struggle. Crazy.
I probably will unironically use "n-word" in place of the actual word spelled out if I feel like it will complement whatever theme or point I'm making.
This is an artistic choice and a fine one. But why should this be applied in every piece of fiction? And what if it doesn't complement your theme or point? You're just going to pretend it doesn't exist or completely change your story so that the event doesn't occur in your art?
and people that are interested in reading about race won't be off-put by that either (they might even prefer it).
They might. And they might not care. And they might think you're being a corny tryhard. People aren't a monolith. Sometimes you should take your intended audience into consideration, but what if you don't want to or if you don't care for a certain portion of the audience because that's not who you intend to consume your shit? The Soviets had "and you hang n-groes" propaganda poster that still pisses liberals off today. Maybe it made some black people uncomfortable, maybe it convinced some black people that american capitalism is against them. But their other audience was American government officials and white liberals who believed they were civil and nice to the black people they oppress alongside the conservative whites. And it clearly worked in making them uncomfortable because the only people talking about that today are white liberals who invoke "whataboutism" whenever you point out their crimes. The conservatives probably thought it was a good thing, but they already believed that and a poster made by the enemy with a slur on it won't change their behavior one way or the other.
Should we just get rid of Come and See because someone might watch it and simply think "wow, this is a terribly sad movie about war time violence." and nothing else? Maybe we should just ban it altogether because it might make victims of war crimes uncomfortable. Or banning Dune for attracting teenagers because they see it as a story about a kid becoming an epic ruler soldier? Or maybe you don't want to get rid of it, but maybe we should get rid of that line where the protagonist compares himself to Hitler you need to spoonfeed everyone? It seems like you unironically want to implement the meme of the protagonist staring directly at the camera and explaining what actions he'll perform off screen, why his actions are bad, and why the viewer shouldn't want to be him.
I'll give you this. The "And babies? And babies." anti-Vietnam war poster is just those two sentences in front of the picture of the victims of the My Lai massacre. It pisses me and disgusts me even though the message supports my beliefs, but not because it depicts my countrymen massacred for a white american audience to consume or that there are conservatives who jack off to it, but because said white american audience never learned from it. They were horrified by it and it fueled their resistance against the imperialists, but guess what? The victims of the massacres, and every other massacre committed by the Americans in Vietnam were essentially Jesus - they died so white Americans may be cleansed of their sins, so that they may continue with their massacres and atrocities without feeling bad about it because mass protests in the 60s are enough to save them from damnation. That's why I'm fucking pissed about it - it was wasted on assholes who never learned. But guess what, there are people out there who are smart enough see the message and they can no longer stomach the crimes of the empire. The poster itself likely played a minor role, or maybe it was the final straw, or maybe it did nothing but disgust people without any further thought. I wouldn't want to look at it again, but I'm not against its existence just because the audience failed to change their ways - in fact, the fact that they didn't makes it more powerful to me because it shows how truly evil this country is.
You don't need to be transgressive in your art to make your point. But if you're smart, and you try to cultivate a smart audience, then there's merit to it.
But what does sex appeal do for the game, if it's just going to give people a reason to not focus on the overall message?
Because hot people doing things is fun sometimes. Not everything needs to be deep. And please don’t say “everything is political.” Yes, it is. We can link Stardew Valley to neo-imperialism in Nigeria and it would be completely valid. But sometimes you just wanna see girls with big butts eviscerating an ancient martial arts demi god even if the moral of the story is “wow family and friends are very important to society”
Like if I'm writing a realistic fiction novel about anti-black racism, what actually is the purpose of using the n-word so liberally or even at all? It's just going to attract chuds who will completely miss the point of the book and put-off the audience I want.
Because real life anti black racism involves calling people the n word? Lmao if someone tries to depict “realistic” racism and the racist is saying every word except the n word, I would say the author is an annoying dumbass at best, and at worst a liberal who’s too scared to confront the reality of the subject matter because it makes him uncomfortable. Obviously context matters. If you have 10 chapters of a black character being abused verbally or physically with nothing else to say, that’s just racist torture porn and it’s no surprise that you attract fascists. Tarantino has a bunch of racist white guys in Django saying all sorts of slurs and committing racist violence, and they all get killed at the end. There are black people who dislike this, but every black person I know who’s talked about this think it’s badass and funny (and most online discourse from black people is positive), meanwhile “white people discourse” is split on the topic because surprise, racist white people don’t like seeing themselves getting their heads blown off and they make up a large portion of western society.
Should we ban Catcher in the Rye and To Kill a Mockingbird because it might encourage someone to shoot pop stars? Should we ban rap music because they might attract white boys who want to act “ghetto” when they never experienced the trenches?
From a narrative perspective, sexualization really should be used sparingly and with a direct purpose, so it doesn't veer into bad taste territory.
Lol is this just an extension of “movie bad because they have sex without any narrative reason”? People fuck. People lust. People will call you horrible slurs when they’re being bigoted. You don’t need to be like Narcos or The Sopranos and show the protagonist fucking every 5 scenes, but guess what? People fuck without any other thought besides “dick is hard I must cum now”
WHO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT CONSERVATIVES’ OPINIONS? If we need to consider their feelings every time we create art, then I don’t fucking want anyone creating art because that sounds like a miserable existence. They will misinterpret every god damn thing in existence as being evidence for their murderous fantasies being necessary for a good life. It doesn’t matter how explicit you make your satire, it doesn’t matter if you avoid your slurs and your tits.
I haven’t played it, but I’ve read that you can be a fascist in Disco Elysium despite the game being made by communists. That path apparently makes the game very easy. This is pretty funny, similar to how choosing to be black in that South Park game makes it harder than normal. Should these features not exist because some asshole will misinterpret the meaning?
Conservatives get angry at the phrase “media literacy” because they think the discourse is about how “leftoids think every media is about capitalism bad” and not “you’re a fucking idiot for only caring about the surface level details.” They fail to have any critical thoughts even when it’s regarding meta-discourse. Why should I value their opinions when creating my art unless it’s to further ridicule and denounce them? People don’t make art to convince anyone of anything, and if they do, they should quickly realize how stupid and ineffective it is. And why should leftists only care about The Important Message for every piece of media 24/7? That’s exhausting. And this someone who DOES care about The Important Message 24/7, but sometimes I just want to fucking speed run a game about a bald man murdering the global elite.
Because real life anti black racism involves calling people the n word? Lmao if someone tries to depict “realistic” racism and the racist is saying every word except the n word, I would say the author is an annoying dumbass at best, and at worst a liberal who’s too scared to confront the reality of the subject matter because it makes him uncomfortable.
See if I was writing about non-fiction then sure, use the n-word. You're talking about an actual event, so context is different. But what I was getting at is realistic fiction, which is still fake.
If someone wants to read the n-word in a book AND learn about racism, they should probably pick up a book that talks about events that actually happened instead of engage in fiction.
Because hot people doing things is fun sometimes. Not everything needs to be deep. And please don’t say “everything is political.” Yes, it is. We can link Stardew Valley to neo-imperialism in Nigeria and it would be completely valid. But sometimes you just wanna see girls with big butts eviscerating an ancient martial arts demi god even if the moral of the story is “wow family and friends are very important to society”
Bestie, enjoy your virtual ass and boobs idgaf about taking away your fun. Just don't panic when other people call out bad media.
No one here thinks you're sexist bc you like vg girls
No one here thinks you're sexist bc you like vg girls
I don't even like the games in OP's post lol. I just find it silly that we need to tip toe around things in art because some asshole will support the complete opposite of the message.
See if I was writing about non-fiction then sure, use the n-word. You're talking about an actual event, so context is different. But what I was getting at is realistic fiction, which is still fake.
If someone wants to read the n-word in a book AND learn about racism, they should probably pick up a book that talks about events that actually happened instead of engage in fiction.
I have no idea what you're trying to argue here anymore. So in your hypothetical realistic fictional book about anti black racism, what, black people are called badoinks or something? What even is the point of your fictional book on racism if racism shouldn't be allowed to be shown? You gonna have cops kill unarmed black people? You shouldn't do that because some white guy might side with the cop. You're gonna make bankers steal a black family's home? You can't do that because a banker might say they deserved it for not paying their mortgage. What's the point of fiction unless it involves fucking dragons, but no not the metaphorical kind since you should just read a fucking history book instead, but literally just a big lizard crawling around the forest because it runs on primal instincts. And for the record I'm not insisting anyone include slurs everywhere, I just find YOUR reasoning absurd because I have to care about what some racist white fucker thinks about my creation to write about him? Fuck off
Nier Automata and common gamer opinions remain some of the biggest examples of that one gundam “wow cool robot” meme but instead it’s “wow sexy wammen”
Tbf Yoko Taro does not shy away from being a horndog and posted THIS
But obviously Nier Automata is a very narratively deep game that is much more than a coomer game.
You could probably make some incredibly on-the-nose game about anti-colonial transgender communist prison abolitionists but as long as there were big pairs of yabbos and large butts on screen at all times gamers would probably not notice
I'm big dumb and which game is this?
It was just hypothetical, that game doesn't exist
But what does sex appeal do for the game, if it's just going to give people a reason to not focus on the overall message?
Like if I'm writing a realistic fiction novel about anti-black racism, what actually is the purpose of using the n-word so liberally or even at all? It's just going to attract chuds who will completely miss the point of the book and put-off the audience I want.
From a narrative perspective, sexualization really should be used sparingly and with a direct purpose, so it doesn't veer into bad taste territory.
My point was just how incredibly shallow the gamer crowd's media analysis skills are
HOT LADY??? GUD GAME, NOT WOKE
To be fair that's not limited to the gamer community. You can definitely see that in other forms of art as well.
Chuds missing the point that a piece of media was explicitly making is a universal theme. See: The boondocks, joker, Rick and Morty, The Boys, etc.
So what? We shouldn’t sacrifice a good story or game - or any bad “thing” - because some dumbass will think “wow he’s literally me!” They’ll always think that because conservatism prohibits thinking too hard about anything, otherwise you stray away from Purity.
My point is: that you can still try to mitigate this. Again with my example: I want to avoid an audience of conservatives who will miss the whole point of my work.
So I put in extra effort to avoid talking about race in a distasteful way. I probably will unironically use "n-word" in place of the actual word spelled out if I feel like it will complement whatever theme or point I'm making. Because using the full word is going to attract those people, and people that are interested in reading about race won't be off-put by that either (they might even prefer it).
You can enjoy problematic media, but it's important to call it out.
Consuming problematic media doesn't necessarily make you problematic.
I never said it did nor do I believe that was your point. Your point is that we should avoid problematic things just because someone bad will be drawn to it which is absurd. I promise you some racist piece of shit isn't going to watch Atlanta, a show about poor black guys making rap music and calling each other the n word and dealing with white people shenanigans, which includes a lot of racism. Wow. It's almost as if there's a difference between the creators of South Park 'satirizing' a racist person and throwing around slurs about Jews while convincing people that "free speech" is more important than someone's feeling vs. someone with skill making art about the struggles of minorities and making problematic characters say problematic things that contribute to that struggle. Crazy.
This is an artistic choice and a fine one. But why should this be applied in every piece of fiction? And what if it doesn't complement your theme or point? You're just going to pretend it doesn't exist or completely change your story so that the event doesn't occur in your art?
They might. And they might not care. And they might think you're being a corny tryhard. People aren't a monolith. Sometimes you should take your intended audience into consideration, but what if you don't want to or if you don't care for a certain portion of the audience because that's not who you intend to consume your shit? The Soviets had "and you hang n-groes" propaganda poster that still pisses liberals off today. Maybe it made some black people uncomfortable, maybe it convinced some black people that american capitalism is against them. But their other audience was American government officials and white liberals who believed they were civil and nice to the black people they oppress alongside the conservative whites. And it clearly worked in making them uncomfortable because the only people talking about that today are white liberals who invoke "whataboutism" whenever you point out their crimes. The conservatives probably thought it was a good thing, but they already believed that and a poster made by the enemy with a slur on it won't change their behavior one way or the other.
Should we just get rid of Come and See because someone might watch it and simply think "wow, this is a terribly sad movie about war time violence." and nothing else? Maybe we should just ban it altogether because it might make victims of war crimes uncomfortable. Or banning Dune for attracting teenagers because they see it as a story about a kid becoming an epic ruler soldier? Or maybe you don't want to get rid of it, but maybe we should get rid of that line where the protagonist compares himself to Hitler you need to spoonfeed everyone? It seems like you unironically want to implement the meme of the protagonist staring directly at the camera and explaining what actions he'll perform off screen, why his actions are bad, and why the viewer shouldn't want to be him.
I'll give you this. The "And babies? And babies." anti-Vietnam war poster is just those two sentences in front of the picture of the victims of the My Lai massacre. It pisses me and disgusts me even though the message supports my beliefs, but not because it depicts my countrymen massacred for a white american audience to consume or that there are conservatives who jack off to it, but because said white american audience never learned from it. They were horrified by it and it fueled their resistance against the imperialists, but guess what? The victims of the massacres, and every other massacre committed by the Americans in Vietnam were essentially Jesus - they died so white Americans may be cleansed of their sins, so that they may continue with their massacres and atrocities without feeling bad about it because mass protests in the 60s are enough to save them from damnation. That's why I'm fucking pissed about it - it was wasted on assholes who never learned. But guess what, there are people out there who are smart enough see the message and they can no longer stomach the crimes of the empire. The poster itself likely played a minor role, or maybe it was the final straw, or maybe it did nothing but disgust people without any further thought. I wouldn't want to look at it again, but I'm not against its existence just because the audience failed to change their ways - in fact, the fact that they didn't makes it more powerful to me because it shows how truly evil this country is.
You don't need to be transgressive in your art to make your point. But if you're smart, and you try to cultivate a smart audience, then there's merit to it.
Because hot people doing things is fun sometimes. Not everything needs to be deep. And please don’t say “everything is political.” Yes, it is. We can link Stardew Valley to neo-imperialism in Nigeria and it would be completely valid. But sometimes you just wanna see girls with big butts eviscerating an ancient martial arts demi god even if the moral of the story is “wow family and friends are very important to society”
Because real life anti black racism involves calling people the n word? Lmao if someone tries to depict “realistic” racism and the racist is saying every word except the n word, I would say the author is an annoying dumbass at best, and at worst a liberal who’s too scared to confront the reality of the subject matter because it makes him uncomfortable. Obviously context matters. If you have 10 chapters of a black character being abused verbally or physically with nothing else to say, that’s just racist torture porn and it’s no surprise that you attract fascists. Tarantino has a bunch of racist white guys in Django saying all sorts of slurs and committing racist violence, and they all get killed at the end. There are black people who dislike this, but every black person I know who’s talked about this think it’s badass and funny (and most online discourse from black people is positive), meanwhile “white people discourse” is split on the topic because surprise, racist white people don’t like seeing themselves getting their heads blown off and they make up a large portion of western society.
Should we ban Catcher in the Rye and To Kill a Mockingbird because it might encourage someone to shoot pop stars? Should we ban rap music because they might attract white boys who want to act “ghetto” when they never experienced the trenches?
Lol is this just an extension of “movie bad because they have sex without any narrative reason”? People fuck. People lust. People will call you horrible slurs when they’re being bigoted. You don’t need to be like Narcos or The Sopranos and show the protagonist fucking every 5 scenes, but guess what? People fuck without any other thought besides “dick is hard I must cum now”
WHO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT CONSERVATIVES’ OPINIONS? If we need to consider their feelings every time we create art, then I don’t fucking want anyone creating art because that sounds like a miserable existence. They will misinterpret every god damn thing in existence as being evidence for their murderous fantasies being necessary for a good life. It doesn’t matter how explicit you make your satire, it doesn’t matter if you avoid your slurs and your tits.
I haven’t played it, but I’ve read that you can be a fascist in Disco Elysium despite the game being made by communists. That path apparently makes the game very easy. This is pretty funny, similar to how choosing to be black in that South Park game makes it harder than normal. Should these features not exist because some asshole will misinterpret the meaning?
Conservatives get angry at the phrase “media literacy” because they think the discourse is about how “leftoids think every media is about capitalism bad” and not “you’re a fucking idiot for only caring about the surface level details.” They fail to have any critical thoughts even when it’s regarding meta-discourse. Why should I value their opinions when creating my art unless it’s to further ridicule and denounce them? People don’t make art to convince anyone of anything, and if they do, they should quickly realize how stupid and ineffective it is. And why should leftists only care about The Important Message for every piece of media 24/7? That’s exhausting. And this someone who DOES care about The Important Message 24/7, but sometimes I just want to fucking speed run a game about a bald man murdering the global elite.
See if I was writing about non-fiction then sure, use the n-word. You're talking about an actual event, so context is different. But what I was getting at is realistic fiction, which is still fake.
If someone wants to read the n-word in a book AND learn about racism, they should probably pick up a book that talks about events that actually happened instead of engage in fiction.
Bestie, enjoy your virtual ass and boobs idgaf about taking away your fun. Just don't panic when other people call out bad media.
No one here thinks you're sexist bc you like vg girls
I don't even like the games in OP's post lol. I just find it silly that we need to tip toe around things in art because some asshole will support the complete opposite of the message.
I have no idea what you're trying to argue here anymore. So in your hypothetical realistic fictional book about anti black racism, what, black people are called badoinks or something? What even is the point of your fictional book on racism if racism shouldn't be allowed to be shown? You gonna have cops kill unarmed black people? You shouldn't do that because some white guy might side with the cop. You're gonna make bankers steal a black family's home? You can't do that because a banker might say they deserved it for not paying their mortgage. What's the point of fiction unless it involves fucking dragons, but no not the metaphorical kind since you should just read a fucking history book instead, but literally just a big lizard crawling around the forest because it runs on primal instincts. And for the record I'm not insisting anyone include slurs everywhere, I just find YOUR reasoning absurd because I have to care about what some racist white fucker thinks about my creation to write about him? Fuck off
link the game, comrade
Jonathan Frakes voice: It's a total fabrication