What can we do to change this? I don't think chapo.chat will ever be huge, but it would be nice for it to be consistently active.
What can we do to change this? I don't think chapo.chat will ever be huge, but it would be nice for it to be consistently active.
Lenin is a spooky Soviet dictator cartoon villain that most people have never thought of outside of that context.
Real-world Lenin was pretty cool. Which means treating him fairly means saying he was pretty cool.
Saying this guy is pretty cool is jarring to people who've never thought about him outside of a vague cartoony version from old propaganda they consumed when they were kids.
When you link someone a random internet community, the way they consume it is not sitting down and critically analyzing everything they're presented. They skim through things and get a rough impression - what're they talking about, what's the general tone, are they funny, do they roughly agree with me? If the first thing they see is a bunch of things way outside of their weirdness filter / radicalism filter / overton window / whatever you want to call it, then they'll just close the tab and move on with their life (and lower their opinion of the linker a bit).
That’s all in your head, though!
This is the internet. People watch ISIS recruitment videos and you still think being open about support for Lenin is too far for them to go, because they’re so delicate. You don’t actually need a really high IQ or the gentle brain massage of a deceptive multi-year leftist psyop to understand why peasant uprisings are cool.
What kind of argument is that? Yeah somebody watches ISIS recruitment videos. If I link a random person I know to one of those, they're going to call the cops. The fact that people who are comfortable with that content exist doesn't mean they're common.
so I mean obviously the core issue here is that you have some fear people will phone the cops on you for Communism. Fair.
we’re not posting ISIS recruitment videos here and you should be more confident in your fight against liberalism
Communists are not common
What.
your plan to sell Communism by hiding Lenin from the masses is silly.
No I mean... you're just putting random thoughts in my head and not reading what I'm saying.
how else would I be putting thoughts in your head if I didn’t read what you’re saying?
You’re saying Lenin is too scary. For them of course, not you. Can we all tone down the Lenin to make everyone comfortable?
Holy shit work on your reading comprehension.
Accusing me of being uncomfortable with Lenin in the thread where I said he was cool. What the hell.
Maoism is really big on combatting liberalism and psychoanalysis.
When a person walks by and says Lenin is too scary for everyone, he’s telling the truth.
I’m sure you’re comfortable with Lenin, you’re just not listening to him. You have to be open with your views, and militantly so.
The largest communist-leaning internet community that has ever existed was created by making a pipeline that was comfortable to socdems.
Any strategy that revolves around ignoring this fact and doing something else is anti-materialist.
If you start listening to Lenin maybe other people will listen to you about materialism
Socialists have much higher standards for invoking the “materialist argument” - insisting that you can solve a new problem without modifying the old solution isn’t a consistent position and isn’t socialist
No one is saying tone down Lenin. We're saying file the serial numbers off. There's a hostile superstructure and yes openly confronting it is important. But in terms of recruitment we need to get people on board with material substance without associating that substance immediatelt with uncritical support of someone who's been demonised by 100 years of propaganda.
It's not Communism. It's "economic democracy"
It's not revolutionary politics. It's "direct action"
Once they're on board with the basics, you make them look at Cuba and Vietnam, and then slide them into how the USSR was good.
Like, there's a reason it's easier to radicalise with Bread Book than State and Revolution, even if I think the latter is more useful overall.
Yes, perfect!
But let’s be honest: those people are much more mad at Comrade Stalin, revolutionary tyrant, than they are Comrade Lenin, revolutionary founder.
That’s why I was surprised at “Lenin”. Yes. Absolutely re-aestheticize socialism. The USSR is not appealing thanks to propaganda, there’s too much history to explain, and we don’t have the time. It’s not suitable imagery for mass work just yet