I'm not sure that's the best argument as no one owns a capitalist government or a communist government. "The people" own the governments of both systems. The ultra rich influence the government, but no one owns any government.
I do tend to agree with the comment about "people who are power hungry seek positions of power." No matter what system you have you're going to have positions of leadership that have to exert some form of "power" over others and the worst people of any society are going to gravitate to those positions.
I suppose It's really a people problem more than a system problem though. :/
I suppose It's really a people problem more than a system problem though. :/
No, it's a system problem. The worst abuses of power under communist regimes pale in comparison to the atrocities capitalist powers commit on a regular basis. Even if you took the Black Book of Communism at face value and assumed every bad thing that happened in the USSR or the PRC was the direct, intended result of the government it would not hold a candle to the British rule of India, the European colonization of the Americas, or the austerity-driven debt slavery of the global south under neocolonialism.
A few government officials taking bribes is not morally or logistically comparable to systematic chattel slavery or stealing the surplus labor value of billions.
It's a matter of what benefits can be obtained by the position of power, it doesn't have to specifically be private property. If there is any voting to be done to choose who obtains those positions of power then it's just a popularity contest for the most skillful at hiding their intentions, those most entertaining and narcissistic that end up winning.
I don't exactly know the solution to that problem. Maybe the Romans has a slightly good idea with a random lottery lol we all have mandatory government service if called on, but that brings its own issues like supremely moronic/ignorant people in positions of power.
If there is any voting to be done to choose who obtains those positions of power then it's just a popularity contest for the most skillful at hiding their intentions, those most entertaining and narcissistic that end up winning.
This happens in the west because we're so far detached from power. Millions of us vote on who will occupy a single position near the top of the pile, with no way to actually know our representative. In places like China and North Korea you vote for your direct representative, literally the person directly above you in the heirarchy, meaning you can actually know what they're like as a person, because they are a peer that you work with, not a member of the ruling party(/parties) that's been parachuted in to a seat representing millions who will never know them.
I do tend to agree with the comment about "people who are power hungry seek positions of power." No matter what system you have you're going to have positions of leadership that have to exert some form of "power" over others and the worst people of any society are going to gravitate to those positions.
Well yes. That’s just natural. But I imagine it can minimized when you have a society that doesn’t promote being parasites and screwing over other people as part of the national dream.
There is absolutely a difference in who exerts power and who it's exerted in service of between capitalist and communist governments. Just in the same way there is a difference between democracy and a monarchy.
In no way is a capitalist government owned by the people. Anything that claims that is just lip service. The entire structure of a capitalist government (and therefore society) exists to empower ultra wealthy imperialists. Communist governments do not, they have checks and balances to prevent that. Laws and regulations shape our society. In the same way you can't take out a loan if your financial credit score is too low, government can be structured with laws and regulations in place to prevent corruption amd power hungry individuals from taking hold.
I'm not sure that's the best argument as no one owns a capitalist government or a communist government. "The people" own the governments of both systems. The ultra rich influence the government, but no one owns any government.
I do tend to agree with the comment about "people who are power hungry seek positions of power." No matter what system you have you're going to have positions of leadership that have to exert some form of "power" over others and the worst people of any society are going to gravitate to those positions.
I suppose It's really a people problem more than a system problem though. :/
No, it's a system problem. The worst abuses of power under communist regimes pale in comparison to the atrocities capitalist powers commit on a regular basis. Even if you took the Black Book of Communism at face value and assumed every bad thing that happened in the USSR or the PRC was the direct, intended result of the government it would not hold a candle to the British rule of India, the European colonization of the Americas, or the austerity-driven debt slavery of the global south under neocolonialism.
A few government officials taking bribes is not morally or logistically comparable to systematic chattel slavery or stealing the surplus labor value of billions.
it helps if your system isnt built from the ground up to reward the most psychopatic monsters that can be found...
perhaps putting people before private property in the ideology of your government might also help mitigate this "human nature" problem you bring up.
It's a matter of what benefits can be obtained by the position of power, it doesn't have to specifically be private property. If there is any voting to be done to choose who obtains those positions of power then it's just a popularity contest for the most skillful at hiding their intentions, those most entertaining and narcissistic that end up winning.
I don't exactly know the solution to that problem. Maybe the Romans has a slightly good idea with a random lottery lol we all have mandatory government service if called on, but that brings its own issues like supremely moronic/ignorant people in positions of power.
This happens in the west because we're so far detached from power. Millions of us vote on who will occupy a single position near the top of the pile, with no way to actually know our representative. In places like China and North Korea you vote for your direct representative, literally the person directly above you in the heirarchy, meaning you can actually know what they're like as a person, because they are a peer that you work with, not a member of the ruling party(/parties) that's been parachuted in to a seat representing millions who will never know them.
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I need to do this bc my business partner is on this beat right now
As a citizen of capitalism no brother we the people do not own shit.
Well yes. That’s just natural. But I imagine it can minimized when you have a society that doesn’t promote being parasites and screwing over other people as part of the national dream.
There is absolutely a difference in who exerts power and who it's exerted in service of between capitalist and communist governments. Just in the same way there is a difference between democracy and a monarchy.
In no way is a capitalist government owned by the people. Anything that claims that is just lip service. The entire structure of a capitalist government (and therefore society) exists to empower ultra wealthy imperialists. Communist governments do not, they have checks and balances to prevent that. Laws and regulations shape our society. In the same way you can't take out a loan if your financial credit score is too low, government can be structured with laws and regulations in place to prevent corruption amd power hungry individuals from taking hold.