eh, honestly it's a bit better than that because loads of us are queer and/or some type of neurodivergent, esp. the people who're actually invested enough to go to events. More of an actual subculture than just a consumption habit imo, because we're largely Like This from socialising on the computer to avoid existing in a world that didn't want us to for one reason or another. Unfortunately that means there's a pretty big shard of Tech Guys, within which is a shard of fuckin Five Eyes Guys lmao
I have known quite a lot of cishet nt furries, hard to do counts. I know some cons banned nazis which is not so much an indicator of leftism as just functional liberalism imo in the us. I mean, being isolated on the internet falls always in many diff directions, politically. could have changed lately as more are open outrageously gay and have pushed back against the weirder people.
E.g. look at anime which attracts basically anybody from all directions. Wouldnt say that anime watchers have messed up politics just bc they watch anime. And there are different tiers to that as well like who can afford cons, why people go into seeing themselves as an anime viewer (opposed to somebody who occasionally watches anime)
I am just sceptical of the idea that hobbies/subcultures as a rule are a reliable indicator of identity or politics (where I presumed this was coming from) bc I see people trodding it out against a more class based analysis, except maybe one that squarely places all of these into a globally priviledged consumer class (ew, dirty ""third worldism"" ew ew).
Would still kinda group subcultures as consumption (in the wider sense of the word) habits, doesnt mean they are "bad".
It feels weird to tack "this person enjoys this or that hobby therefore they are most likely y" on things. I would guess the queers furs are more coherently organized and therefore more visible/ able to ban people that would kill them since they stick together as a community more? I should prolly finish the book on that which is lying on my device...
oh, yeah, all subcultures are also consumption groups under capital, wasn't disagreeing with you there but worded it poorly. this one's definitely a pretty reliable indicator of identity in my pretty extensive experience though. as an example that's fairly easy to tell at a glance, cis women are waaay below half (honestly there's probably about as many trans women as cis women at a given furmeet) due to massive issues with misogyny within the fandom, reflections of misogyny in geek culture & male gay culture. While, yes, the economic relations are largely the same as they are outside of the subculture, I think it's kinda absurd to go full vulgar marxist and abandon any analysis of social relations - specific groups face specific issues, and in order to flip other folks into being communists you gotta apply marxism to their actual lives
Was not saying class is the only thing that matters but if something is putting subjective stuff first and claims it is more important, it raises an eyebrow ngl.
Also, would you mind elaborating on why cis women are put off by misogyny and trans women in the fandom are not?
yeah, you're right that it's not more important, but it does absolutely influence the class character - in my experience there's far fewer people with "normal" jobs as a %, lotsa long-term unemployed, lotsa precariat (including the bizzare cyberserfdom of being an online artist), and then also a ton of PMCs, so prostletysing is a bit easier in some cases and harder in others
and it's not really about who's put off by stuff - it's partly that things have gotten a lot better recently, various whisper networks have finally become shouting networks & lots of dickheads have been pushed out, so we've been more able to come out and/or figure stuff out. partly that a lot of us have been real deep into using the computer for years. and, honestly, partly that becoming a Creature, entirely seperate from your pathetic human self, is more appealing to trans people - there's a lot of enbies & transmascs too. I think/hope it'll even out eventually gender-wise, but there's still a hell of a lot of work to do! also it's kinda absurd how many paragraphs of Furry Fandom Analysis I've typed out lmao, might try putting my thoughts together in a more coherent format at some point
Marxist wolves would be pretty dope, especially if they showed up unexpectedly to question the hero about their motives in ways that clarified their goals and galvanized their resolve.
inside this marxist, there are two wolves (I am at the furry convention)
:bonk:
Wouldn't that be "inside the wolf there are two Marxists"?
eh, could be either way really. That said, unfortunately I'm not too picky and lotsa furries are kinda a mess politically
Not much more than your average hobby group. It is a consumption habit, not that much of a marker for politics tbh.
eh, honestly it's a bit better than that because loads of us are queer and/or some type of neurodivergent, esp. the people who're actually invested enough to go to events. More of an actual subculture than just a consumption habit imo, because we're largely Like This from socialising on the computer to avoid existing in a world that didn't want us to for one reason or another. Unfortunately that means there's a pretty big shard of Tech Guys, within which is a shard of fuckin Five Eyes Guys lmao
I have known quite a lot of cishet nt furries, hard to do counts. I know some cons banned nazis which is not so much an indicator of leftism as just functional liberalism imo in the us. I mean, being isolated on the internet falls always in many diff directions, politically. could have changed lately as more are open outrageously gay and have pushed back against the weirder people. E.g. look at anime which attracts basically anybody from all directions. Wouldnt say that anime watchers have messed up politics just bc they watch anime. And there are different tiers to that as well like who can afford cons, why people go into seeing themselves as an anime viewer (opposed to somebody who occasionally watches anime)
I am just sceptical of the idea that hobbies/subcultures as a rule are a reliable indicator of identity or politics (where I presumed this was coming from) bc I see people trodding it out against a more class based analysis, except maybe one that squarely places all of these into a globally priviledged consumer class (ew, dirty ""third worldism"" ew ew).
Would still kinda group subcultures as consumption (in the wider sense of the word) habits, doesnt mean they are "bad". It feels weird to tack "this person enjoys this or that hobby therefore they are most likely y" on things. I would guess the queers furs are more coherently organized and therefore more visible/ able to ban people that would kill them since they stick together as a community more? I should prolly finish the book on that which is lying on my device...
oh, yeah, all subcultures are also consumption groups under capital, wasn't disagreeing with you there but worded it poorly. this one's definitely a pretty reliable indicator of identity in my pretty extensive experience though. as an example that's fairly easy to tell at a glance, cis women are waaay below half (honestly there's probably about as many trans women as cis women at a given furmeet) due to massive issues with misogyny within the fandom, reflections of misogyny in geek culture & male gay culture. While, yes, the economic relations are largely the same as they are outside of the subculture, I think it's kinda absurd to go full vulgar marxist and abandon any analysis of social relations - specific groups face specific issues, and in order to flip other folks into being communists you gotta apply marxism to their actual lives
Was not saying class is the only thing that matters but if something is putting subjective stuff first and claims it is more important, it raises an eyebrow ngl.
Also, would you mind elaborating on why cis women are put off by misogyny and trans women in the fandom are not?
yeah, you're right that it's not more important, but it does absolutely influence the class character - in my experience there's far fewer people with "normal" jobs as a %, lotsa long-term unemployed, lotsa precariat (including the bizzare cyberserfdom of being an online artist), and then also a ton of PMCs, so prostletysing is a bit easier in some cases and harder in others
and it's not really about who's put off by stuff - it's partly that things have gotten a lot better recently, various whisper networks have finally become shouting networks & lots of dickheads have been pushed out, so we've been more able to come out and/or figure stuff out. partly that a lot of us have been real deep into using the computer for years. and, honestly, partly that becoming a Creature, entirely seperate from your pathetic human self, is more appealing to trans people - there's a lot of enbies & transmascs too. I think/hope it'll even out eventually gender-wise, but there's still a hell of a lot of work to do! also it's kinda absurd how many paragraphs of Furry Fandom Analysis I've typed out lmao, might try putting my thoughts together in a more coherent format at some point
Marxist wolves would be pretty dope, especially if they showed up unexpectedly to question the hero about their motives in ways that clarified their goals and galvanized their resolve.