However, way more harm has been caused by 9/11 being taken too seriously. The much bigger issue are the hundreds of thousands of people who were killed in imperialist wars that used 9/11 as justification.
I think you're saying this, but this is why 9/11 jokes are OK: the response has been so horrifically disproportionate that holding those 3000ish casualties above the millions killed in the last 20 years is preposterous. And that was before covid, where we were doing 9/11 numbers every day for a while and now we barely acknowledge that happened.
Allegations of genocide are upheld as sacrosanct no matter how shaky the evidence is
Jokes about the flimsiness of evidence (e.g., about how the Black Book of Communism counts Nazis as victims) of a non-existent genocide are pretty different from joking about doing genocide.
Also, in terms of mayocide it is making fun of white fragility. The group that does all the genocides should be knocked down a peg or two. Maybe if liberals took the sudden empathy they feel with persecuted people and fold that into their ideology they would do less genocide.
Jokes about the flimsiness of evidence (e.g., about how the Black Book of Communism counts Nazis as victims) of a non-existent genocide are pretty different from joking about doing genocide.
Isn't the term "Mayocide" a parody of the nonexistent "white genocide," intended to mock it and highlight the absurdity? I remember a classic meme from the old sub that was like:
When the mayocide happens and you have to shoot your conrads
Owning a criticism is one of the tactics we use to defang criticism and demonstrate that it has no teeth. It's just another way of joking about the lack of credulity, imo.
Isn't the term "Mayocide" a parody of the nonexistent "white genocide," intended to mock it and highlight the absurdity?
Really context dependent. If some wingnut is ranting about "white genocide" and you're mocking that, sure. But if it's a "unlimited genocide on the first world" comment on a post about a U.S. drone strike or other imperial crime, it doesn't relate to that context. It reads more like "death to America," which often isn't used as a joke, but as an earnest call for the U.S. empire to be defeated.
Is there really a large contingent of people who draw their line between "Death to America," and, "Unlimited genocide of the first world ?" I've never encountered such a person until today.
"Death to America" pops up in the real world occasionally, "unlimited genocide" is entirely online from what I know. Stuff that's edgy and exclusively online should be closely scrutinized.
There's also a pretty justifiable explanation for anyone who goes at "death to America": it's a call for the U.S. empire to be defeated; it's referring to the state, not the people. It's the same thing as saying Israel doesn't have a right to exist -- there's a clear line between talking about state governments vs. the whole population.
Genocide, on the other hand, can't credibly be read as "oh I'm not talking about the people, just the state."
There's also a pretty justifiable explanation for anyone who goes at "unlimited genocide on the first world": it's a joke.
I guess I'm just confused about what your concern is. Like someone who would otherwise be a great fit here is going to wander into Hexbear, see something like:
Show
And they're gonna go, "Oh my heavens! Genocide?!" and run off without asking any sort of clarifying questions about our beliefs or how serious the meme is?
This just seems like complaining for the sake of complaining, frankly.
A lot of "unlimited genocide" comments aren't obviously joking. Many are made in the same style as earnest "death to America" comments, there's a whole contingent of basically ultras who (being generous) are not interested in splitting hairs over when violence is justified, and of course you have the problem seen on every internet forum that makes edgy jokes: some people take them seriously, or at least say they do to be even more edgy.
Also, "it's a joke" is not a bulletproof defense. People have brought up sexual assault jokes -- those and many other types of jokes are "just jokes," but for various reasons we don't tolerate them. Even obvious joke comments like the picture you posted can still be tasteless, offensive, etc.
You have a point mayocide would actually improve things so it isn't 100% a joke. Like, I'd be sad to go but it would be a fair price to pay to bring about the revolution worldwide.
I think you're saying this, but this is why 9/11 jokes are OK: the response has been so horrifically disproportionate that holding those 3000ish casualties above the millions killed in the last 20 years is preposterous. And that was before covid, where we were doing 9/11 numbers every day for a while and now we barely acknowledge that happened.
Jokes about the flimsiness of evidence (e.g., about how the Black Book of Communism counts Nazis as victims) of a non-existent genocide are pretty different from joking about doing genocide.
Also, in terms of mayocide it is making fun of white fragility. The group that does all the genocides should be knocked down a peg or two. Maybe if liberals took the sudden empathy they feel with persecuted people and fold that into their ideology they would do less genocide.
Joking about doing genocide isn't going to convince anyone of anything. It does exactly two things:
Yes, that is what I'm saying.
Isn't the term "Mayocide" a parody of the nonexistent "white genocide," intended to mock it and highlight the absurdity? I remember a classic meme from the old sub that was like:
Owning a criticism is one of the tactics we use to defang criticism and demonstrate that it has no teeth. It's just another way of joking about the lack of credulity, imo.
Really context dependent. If some wingnut is ranting about "white genocide" and you're mocking that, sure. But if it's a "unlimited genocide on the first world" comment on a post about a U.S. drone strike or other imperial crime, it doesn't relate to that context. It reads more like "death to America," which often isn't used as a joke, but as an earnest call for the U.S. empire to be defeated.
Is there really a large contingent of people who draw their line between "Death to America," and, "Unlimited genocide of the first world
?" I've never encountered such a person until today.
"Death to America" pops up in the real world occasionally, "unlimited genocide" is entirely online from what I know. Stuff that's edgy and exclusively online should be closely scrutinized.
There's also a pretty justifiable explanation for anyone who goes
at "death to America": it's a call for the U.S. empire to be defeated; it's referring to the state, not the people. It's the same thing as saying Israel doesn't have a right to exist -- there's a clear line between talking about state governments vs. the whole population.
Genocide, on the other hand, can't credibly be read as "oh I'm not talking about the people, just the state."
There's also a pretty justifiable explanation for anyone who goes
at "unlimited genocide on the first world": it's a joke.
I guess I'm just confused about what your concern is. Like someone who would otherwise be a great fit here is going to wander into Hexbear, see something like:
And they're gonna go, "Oh my heavens! Genocide?!" and run off without asking any sort of clarifying questions about our beliefs or how serious the meme is?
This just seems like complaining for the sake of complaining, frankly.
Two things:
A lot of "unlimited genocide" comments aren't obviously joking. Many are made in the same style as earnest "death to America" comments, there's a whole contingent of basically ultras who (being generous) are not interested in splitting hairs over when violence is justified, and of course you have the problem seen on every internet forum that makes edgy jokes: some people take them seriously, or at least say they do to be even more edgy.
Also, "it's a joke" is not a bulletproof defense. People have brought up sexual assault jokes -- those and many other types of jokes are "just jokes," but for various reasons we don't tolerate them. Even obvious joke comments like the picture you posted can still be tasteless, offensive, etc.
And people (like myself) have explained why they're not at all comparable.
You have a point mayocide would actually improve things so it isn't 100% a joke. Like, I'd be sad to go but it would be a fair price to pay to bring about the revolution worldwide.
challenge failed