the last good bethesda game was morrowind and the people that made it good aren't there or in those roles anymore. the things they did to make it good aren't what bethesda does anymore.
the company that has been stripping mechanics out of role playing games in order to sell them to a broader audience for twenty years will probably not do something new or interesting.
No, I'd argue Oblivion and Skyrim were pretty good in their own way Fallout 3 was good too, just not as good as New Vegas. It's cool if you don't like anything past Morrowind, but it's not the general consensus that they haven't made anything good since Morrowind. This is what grinds my gears about fans of morrowind (speaking of morrowind fans in general. not you in particular my dude) any acquiescence towards accessibility e is seen as an inherently bad thing to morrowind heads. I think there's degrees and they find a good balance with Oblivion and to a lesser degree Skyrim (which was pushing it, but still very good imo)
TLDR acessiblity is not always bad, there is nuance.
Not really a fan of Fallout 4 or 76 though they kind of just made them Farcry games in the fallout universe at that point.
I like Morrowind enough my self I just find the writing and Mechanics dated and lackluster compared to later entries in the franchise. It gets irritating when you hear the "latest rumors" from an NPC in town and it turns out to be the same crap you've heard 50 times over from someone else.
any acquiescence towards accessibility e is seen as an inherently bad thing to morrowind heads
No, its just that removing the good parts of the game in order to appeal to more 10 year olds is an inherently bad thing, which is what is meant by bethesda's approach to "accessibility" 99% of the time
I don't know too many 10 year olds interested in Western RPGS in general, Call of Duty and Grand theft auto are more par for the course in that regard. Honestly a lot of the stuff removed from Morrowind I just considered to be superfluous besides stuff like Levitation. If I want something really really deep that's doesn't feel completely dated I would go play Planescape torment, hell for something even more modern Pillars of Eternity or Divnity Original Sin 2 would be better than Morrowind IMO.
What was removed from Oblivion that made the game completely unplayable in comparison to Morrowind for you, if you don't mind me asking?
When did I say anything like this? Why do people have to be so hyperbolic on the internet? I like Oblivion. I just like Morrowind more, and Daggerfall I like even more than that in some ways. I just think Daggerfall's biggest weaknesses are greater than Morrowind's biggest weaknesses and that Morrowind found the best balance.
Since Daggerfall, there has been a very clear and steady trend of reducing the RPG mechanics to highlight the action mechanics, and Oblivion (taking place in the most generic and uninteresting depiction of Tamriel so far) was hurt the worst by this trend. Skyrim pulls it off better but I still dislike the trend. Morrowind has both the most interesting depiction of Tamriel and the least RPG degradation so I like it the most of the three.
Chill, I thought you were the other guy who said Bethesda hasn't done anything good since Morrowind. I was mistaken, my bad.
I personally don't think the Elder Scrolls series was ever some sort of Bastion of Western RPG mechanics to really bother me if some of the stuff was taken out to tailor towards a wider audience. That's me though, you like what you like and I like what I like. Aside from that man, I can't really think of anything worse than arguing back and forth about RPGS and video games on the internet. So I'm out, unless you want to discuss something different.
I personally don’t think the Elder Scrolls series was ever some sort of Bastion of Western RPG mechanics to really bother me if some of the stuff was taken out to tailor towards a wider audience.
It doesn't really matter what you or I think the Elder Scrolls series was, the point is that I am part of that narrower audience which the earlier games appeal to, and that things I and others in that audience like were not in later entries because they were pursuing that 'wider audience.' There is nothing difficult to understand about why that means I don't like the newer games as much. They made the active decision to stop making games like the ones I like because they saw more money in making games a different kind of person likes. No one at Bethesda is confused why players like me aren't huge fans of Skyrim and Oblivion, why are you?
I'd also like to say that it is only ever a bad thing for an artist to focus on appealing to a "wide audicence." No one ever tells a romance author their book has too much romance and not enough war or dragons. They just don't read romance novels. Why should I be expected to like it when the romance author I like makes "Romance Novel 2" and it's about battle tactics with a small romance side plot?
You win dude, it's not that important to me. I would only add that if you wish for a game like Morrowind, that it will probably never happen from Bethesda. You're probably better off looking at different studios if you want something that doesn't feel like Skyrim or Oblivion and is more akin to Daggerfall or Morrowind, as I firmly believe the farthest they will look back in their catalogue of games for inspiration is probably Oblivion. Or you can just wait on that Morrowind Remake that independent studio is putting together. Or replay Morrowind again I guess.
Edit: I hope they do make another Morrowind Style game so that everyone's happy. I just doubt it's going to happen.
I would only add that if you wish for a game like Morrowind, that it will probably never happen from Bethesda. You’re probably better off looking at different studios
What? You can do that? I thought I locked in Bethesda under 'game dev studio' at character creation so now I'm just stuck with whatever they put out. That's why I have definitely never played any other games which appeal to my interests and simply spend all day every day waiting for an excuse to complain about modern Bethesda games (I think this is the second thread I have ever discussed a Bethesda game in on this site)
I think I've been pretty fair actually. I tried to end the conversation numerous times and basically said "to each his own" and you kept trying to tell me how I was wrong for not caring about Elder Scrolls being made more accessible.
I'll say it again. I like Morrowind enough (I liked it enough to try arguably the most boring build in the game and play through it, an archer build) i've actually put a couple hundred hours into it and I think if it's someone favorite Elder Scrolls that is a valid opinion to have. I just don't agree with condescension from Morrowind fans towards people who prefer Oblivion or Skyrim especially considering Morrowind isn't really all that deep to begin with. You like what you like man, I'm not telling you you're wrong. I just prefer Oblivion and Skyrim myself.
you kept trying to tell me how I was wrong for not caring about Elder Scrolls being made more accessible.
man, stop taking mild criticisms of your favorite treats as personal attacks. you'll enjoy life a lot more if you also have mild criticisms of your favorite treats.
Yeah I can only tolerate hearing the same bullshit from 50 different npcs so many times. There's also the fact a lot of the times the quests boil down to "Murder this man for an obscure and weird reason"
yeah but did you know you could enchant a pair of daedric gauntlets to produce a single fireball that can destroy half the npcs in seyda neen with a single large radius blast?
do you mean accessibility as in colourblind modes or accessibility as in removing custom magic spells from skyrim and removing skills entirely from fallout 4?
I like oblivion and Skyrim too, they’re just not good.
I actually don’t like fallout 3, but that doesn’t have any bearing on it not being good.
Idk what you’re talking about when you say accessibility. Usually I think about like screen reading or colorblind modes or whatever when I hear that.
Saying you find the writing and mechanics of morrowind dated and lackluster compared to oblivion and Skyrim is some weird shit. Surely I’m misunderstanding you.
it's... not possible.
the last good bethesda game was morrowind and the people that made it good aren't there or in those roles anymore. the things they did to make it good aren't what bethesda does anymore.
the company that has been stripping mechanics out of role playing games in order to sell them to a broader audience for twenty years will probably not do something new or interesting.
No, I'd argue Oblivion and Skyrim were pretty good in their own way Fallout 3 was good too, just not as good as New Vegas. It's cool if you don't like anything past Morrowind, but it's not the general consensus that they haven't made anything good since Morrowind. This is what grinds my gears about fans of morrowind (speaking of morrowind fans in general. not you in particular my dude) any acquiescence towards accessibility e is seen as an inherently bad thing to morrowind heads. I think there's degrees and they find a good balance with Oblivion and to a lesser degree Skyrim (which was pushing it, but still very good imo)
TLDR acessiblity is not always bad, there is nuance.
Not really a fan of Fallout 4 or 76 though they kind of just made them Farcry games in the fallout universe at that point.
I like Morrowind enough my self I just find the writing and Mechanics dated and lackluster compared to later entries in the franchise. It gets irritating when you hear the "latest rumors" from an NPC in town and it turns out to be the same crap you've heard 50 times over from someone else.
No, its just that removing the good parts of the game in order to appeal to more 10 year olds is an inherently bad thing, which is what is meant by bethesda's approach to "accessibility" 99% of the time
sorry that was me I was the 12 year old buying Skyrim
I don't know too many 10 year olds interested in Western RPGS in general, Call of Duty and Grand theft auto are more par for the course in that regard. Honestly a lot of the stuff removed from Morrowind I just considered to be superfluous besides stuff like Levitation. If I want something really really deep that's doesn't feel completely dated I would go play Planescape torment, hell for something even more modern Pillars of Eternity or Divnity Original Sin 2 would be better than Morrowind IMO.
What was removed from Oblivion that made the game completely unplayable in comparison to Morrowind for you, if you don't mind me asking?
When did I say anything like this? Why do people have to be so hyperbolic on the internet? I like Oblivion. I just like Morrowind more, and Daggerfall I like even more than that in some ways. I just think Daggerfall's biggest weaknesses are greater than Morrowind's biggest weaknesses and that Morrowind found the best balance.
Since Daggerfall, there has been a very clear and steady trend of reducing the RPG mechanics to highlight the action mechanics, and Oblivion (taking place in the most generic and uninteresting depiction of Tamriel so far) was hurt the worst by this trend. Skyrim pulls it off better but I still dislike the trend. Morrowind has both the most interesting depiction of Tamriel and the least RPG degradation so I like it the most of the three.
Chill, I thought you were the other guy who said Bethesda hasn't done anything good since Morrowind. I was mistaken, my bad.
I personally don't think the Elder Scrolls series was ever some sort of Bastion of Western RPG mechanics to really bother me if some of the stuff was taken out to tailor towards a wider audience. That's me though, you like what you like and I like what I like. Aside from that man, I can't really think of anything worse than arguing back and forth about RPGS and video games on the internet. So I'm out, unless you want to discuss something different.
It doesn't really matter what you or I think the Elder Scrolls series was, the point is that I am part of that narrower audience which the earlier games appeal to, and that things I and others in that audience like were not in later entries because they were pursuing that 'wider audience.' There is nothing difficult to understand about why that means I don't like the newer games as much. They made the active decision to stop making games like the ones I like because they saw more money in making games a different kind of person likes. No one at Bethesda is confused why players like me aren't huge fans of Skyrim and Oblivion, why are you?
I'd also like to say that it is only ever a bad thing for an artist to focus on appealing to a "wide audicence." No one ever tells a romance author their book has too much romance and not enough war or dragons. They just don't read romance novels. Why should I be expected to like it when the romance author I like makes "Romance Novel 2" and it's about battle tactics with a small romance side plot?
You win dude, it's not that important to me. I would only add that if you wish for a game like Morrowind, that it will probably never happen from Bethesda. You're probably better off looking at different studios if you want something that doesn't feel like Skyrim or Oblivion and is more akin to Daggerfall or Morrowind, as I firmly believe the farthest they will look back in their catalogue of games for inspiration is probably Oblivion. Or you can just wait on that Morrowind Remake that independent studio is putting together. Or replay Morrowind again I guess.
Edit: I hope they do make another Morrowind Style game so that everyone's happy. I just doubt it's going to happen.
What? You can do that? I thought I locked in Bethesda under 'game dev studio' at character creation so now I'm just stuck with whatever they put out. That's why I have definitely never played any other games which appeal to my interests and simply spend all day every day waiting for an excuse to complain about modern Bethesda games (I think this is the second thread I have ever discussed a Bethesda game in on this site)
I wasn't sure, you seemed awfully concerned about Morrowind style Bethesda games. I was trying assuage some of that anxiety.
Dude, go back to :reddit-logo:
I'm just having a conversation and you're being so weirdly confrontational about it
I think I've been pretty fair actually. I tried to end the conversation numerous times and basically said "to each his own" and you kept trying to tell me how I was wrong for not caring about Elder Scrolls being made more accessible.
I'll say it again. I like Morrowind enough (I liked it enough to try arguably the most boring build in the game and play through it, an archer build) i've actually put a couple hundred hours into it and I think if it's someone favorite Elder Scrolls that is a valid opinion to have. I just don't agree with condescension from Morrowind fans towards people who prefer Oblivion or Skyrim especially considering Morrowind isn't really all that deep to begin with. You like what you like man, I'm not telling you you're wrong. I just prefer Oblivion and Skyrim myself.
man, stop taking mild criticisms of your favorite treats as personal attacks. you'll enjoy life a lot more if you also have mild criticisms of your favorite treats.
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:jesse-wtf:
Yeah I can only tolerate hearing the same bullshit from 50 different npcs so many times. There's also the fact a lot of the times the quests boil down to "Murder this man for an obscure and weird reason"
Sorry I guess.
have you actually played skyrim
Of course.
yeah but did you know you could enchant a pair of daedric gauntlets to produce a single fireball that can destroy half the npcs in seyda neen with a single large radius blast?
That ain't story
do you mean accessibility as in colourblind modes or accessibility as in removing custom magic spells from skyrim and removing skills entirely from fallout 4?
I like oblivion and Skyrim too, they’re just not good.
I actually don’t like fallout 3, but that doesn’t have any bearing on it not being good.
Idk what you’re talking about when you say accessibility. Usually I think about like screen reading or colorblind modes or whatever when I hear that.
Saying you find the writing and mechanics of morrowind dated and lackluster compared to oblivion and Skyrim is some weird shit. Surely I’m misunderstanding you.