Edit: just reading through your responses in this thread and I think it's a cool discussion, these are just random thoughts related to this topic.

No worries, it might come off as an unnecessary challenge, but it's a pertinent question, and something that always comes up from me with these discussions. I'm going to ramble now. Like, we all know what a normal western cis-het man is, and what a normal western cis-het relationship is, because it's the predominant mode and plastered everywhere in media and culture. The patriarchy and capital concludes that normal is a worthy goal and something outside of those modes is wrong and should be fixed, but also the patriarchy and capital are things we are ideologically opposed to. That said, I think there is some truth to when in rome.

Whether it's relationship style, socialization style, dress style, employment, anything. A lot of people here are neurodivergent, myself included, which can mean we need more guidance than what is obvious to a lot of people, so I'm really not trying to poop on these kinds of posts which could be very helpful for a lot of people. A lot of what makes us feel sick and isolated are these norms being forced on us though, and I'm a firm believer in prioritizing what the bad guys call "inner game", which can lead to self confidence and self acceptance, as well as an easier time accepting criticism and changing.

Side tangent: We are participating in a space that aims to examine and dismantle these things, while often appearing hostile toward these norms. :norm macdonald:. So it's a tricky thing, and even in this thread we have the same few users in every one of these threads signalling to eachother how cis-hets taking up more air and space is annoying. I think while they have their own point to make, they are missing the entire point of this conversation, that came up from that ridiculous vaush post, that the far right has a monopoly on radicalizing cis-het men. Being an outsider and catching scorn from the majority of society feels bad, over time it leads to all kinds of psychic damage. Being cis-het doesn't preclude anyone from this, even if non-cis-hets are guaranteed the same and worse. However, being cis-het and inclined to reject norms is also throwing yourself into the fire, so we should be kind to eachother and allow space for this discussion regardless of gender and sexual identity. I don't think anyone is asking to be coddled, I mostly see users attempting to brainstorm approaches, but yeah it is a conversation that can go sideways.

This website literally has the most pro-trans content of any site I've ever used, and as a cis-het I'm here for it. Most users here seem on board with working toward rejecting stereotypical male-ness, and working to examine and dismantle toxicity on an individual level. A lot of these things are almost always at odds with being normal, and can lead to a sense of self-hatred and unworthiness if not also presented with some framework. There is a certain level of a priori knowledge, and personal work necessary I believe to avoid the "white guilt" style pitfalls in these communities.

Okay so it's weird I'm trying to justify making space for cis-het men to discuss these things, because while I agree there are already many places for these discussions, we want to discuss is here because it just feels healthier and more balanced and less prone to becoming an echo chamber.

"Be normal" is great advice when the overarching theme is a political ideology that is deeply unpopular. I appreciate your advice, sincerely, a weird person who would rather die unhappy than normal.