I was vocal and terrified about climate change in the 90s (although I didn't do a whole lot). I was super active in the anti war stuff during the war on terror. I said repeatedly that Iraq had no WMDs and that Afghanistan wouldn't go well. I was sorta active during Occupy. I was telling everyone not to buy crypto years ago. And I've been very COVID outspoken from day one.
This post is not to brag about how based I am. I was very slow to get on the correct side of trans issues, and I've said/done enough borderline racist and misogynistic shit. I have enough cringe memories of me being a lib. I've also just been really lazy and selfish.
Anyhow, I had hoped that the right would be so wrong, so badly, that people would wake up and warm to our side. I used to actually do organised debates with different groups at uni. I even sent a few a FB message years after Iraq went to shit (ya I'm petty). None have been like "oh fuck, you were so right want the WMDs". When I'm battling friends over COVID issues or the newest bullshit trans conspiracy theory, THEY FUCKING KNOW I was right about crypto and Elon Musk. It's like, all the Ls that the right had taken are in the memory hole and we're onto the next bullshit idea. I'm still the lone crank that's warning about war with Russia and China and telling everyone to mask when my mates were smoking weed through every horrible murderous mistake the West made.
Sorry if it sounds like I'm whinging for my own sake. I get that the right is very well funded, and that is no individual's fault. I'm just very aware that people around me find me to be a tedious crank, but they're all fucking liberals who've been eating out of the trashcan of ideology their whole lives.
I am a lib, and will certainly die a lib. That said:
The afghanistan war is this for me. Something like 88% of the country supported that invasion, anyone who spoke out about it was blacklisted. It took a lot of convincing to pull my own mind away from genocide. Good luck finding anyone who will admit to it now, 88% of the country up and vanished without a single news report.
It's this, and you can't let it get to you. They're advertised to daily, the world shaped to accommodate them, etc. - these tools are used because they work and present an appealing alternative to... well reality.
Sorry people are a pain in the ass.
I think you mean Iraq if ur talking USA attitudes. Does anyone even know why everyone invaded Afghanistan too? (Even the countries who clearly weren't excited about Iraq but still sent soldiers there)
The media machine in :kkkanada: is still giving us stories about how bad the Taliban are and how bad it is that we're not there anymore because women can't go to school anymore. No news about how bad living conditions are because they don't have access to accounts from the last government. Or critical examination of what exactly was being done for 20 years and why the Taliban won immediately once foreign invaders left.
I honestly do not know the rationale for the Afghanistan invasion, and why they're not allowed to be a socially backwards allied country like Qatar or Saudi Arabia instead of a socially backwards pariah. I get the whole 911 thing, but still doesn't make sense. Why spend all that money for 0 influence 20 years later?
I meant Afghanistan, here's one poll;
https://news.gallup.com/poll/5029/eight-americans-support-ground-war-afghanistan.aspx
The why is fairly complex, but there was pre-existing intent to start wars with what ultimately became the "axis of evil." 911 was simply used to make it happen.
Why Americans permitted it? We didn't know Iraq from Afghanistan, and didn't care. A common term at the time was "glass the middle east with nukes."
I meant genocidal when I said it.
Yeah, i was saying glass the desert for a while back then. I was in highschool in 2001 and didn't know anything about anything. It was such a bizarre, scary time culturally. Just the worst fascist impulses on full display, not that it ever got better.
I'm surprised people in US even remember Afghanistan. That seemed like such a side thing to Iraq.
But I guess the question is phrased as "were we right to invade brown country" instead of "name the countries that we were correct to invade". I feel like no one American even talks about Afghanistan because the reasoning was slightly less flimsy than Iraq.
You're right, they don't remember Afghanistan and it really fucks with me. The shit we did there is horrific and I walk amongst war criminals.
As far as i understand and remember bin Laden was in Affghanistan, the US demanded the Taliban surrender him, the Taliban offered to hand him to a third party for trial, the US said fuck you and sent in specops, the US was allied with the northern alliance warlords, the northern alliance started losing, we sent in troops to support them, and since bush and cheney didn't really have a plan or care it just kind of snowballed. Bin Laden had left for Pakistan before we even got their so it was pointless from the start, and from what military people have told me there was never a clear goal or objective the whole twenty years we were there. It was just a combination of failson governance and profiteering.
I'm pretty sure i supported iraq and afghanistan at the time. I was a teenager and didn't know anything. This is probably the most cliche "performative leftist man" thing ever but i think what started to break me out of it was this girl i was dating asked me to march in Pride with her and it turned out we were the anti-war anti-bush contingent. It was shortly after the abu ghraib pictures came out and i ended up walking several miles through downtown wearing a prisoner jumpsuit and a black hood with my hands chained up. I don't know if that was actually "the moment" America started breaking down for me, but it's the moment i remember.