Stalin didn't do anything. The soviet Union under Stalin was ran under collective leadership. Something even the CIA agrees with
Even in Stalin's time there was collective leadership. The Western idea of a dictator within the Communist setup is exaggerated. Stalin was merely the captain of a team.
People’s Ethnic Cleansing during WW2
The Nazis occupied most of what we now call Ukraine and was only a few hundred miles from Crimea in 1944. A Slither of Soviet resistance separated Nazi occupied Ukraine from Crimea in 1944
https://omniatlas.com/maps/europe/19440129/
So did the Soviets move the Tatars because they wanted to "do a peoples ethnic cleansing" or did the Soviets move them to prevent what happened to all Soviet peoples under the flag of the 3rd reich?
deporting entire ethnicities from their homelands to some fucking backwoods without proper infrastructure
Yes. Much better to have the Nazis ride over the skulls off the Soviet supporters among the Crimean Tatars, the Nazis to empower the collaborators and use all the socialists and communists for slave labour like the OUN/UPA in the rest of Nazi-occupied Ukraine . Who signed up for Einzatsgruppen, and SS squads and wholesale slaughtered their own people
Stalin didn’t do anything. The soviet Union under Stalin was ran under collective leadership. Something even the CIA agrees with
The question was "what mistakes did Stalin make", I don't want to argue semantics here, you know what I meant.
So did the Soviets move the Tatars because they wanted to “do a peoples ethnic cleansing” or did the Soviets move them to prevent what happened to all Soviet peoples under the flag of the 3rd reich?
Uh huh, so why didn't they bring them back after the war? And also why didn't they do the same for all civilians, the nazis had plans to eradicate or enslave pretty much every ethnicity east of Berlin.
If WW3 were to break out what would it matter where the Tatars were at the time? WW3 clearly wouldn't have been fought against nazis.
Also they could have moved them back after Stalin's death, or did Khruschev's revisionism infect literally the entire Soviet Union instantly after gaining power? What was that about collective leadership again?
If WW3 were to break out what would it matter where the Tatars were at the time? WW3 clearly wouldn’t have been fought against nazis.
No it would've been fought by the Anglo-American empire that rehabiliated Nazis and put them as heads of NATO, EU and even put Reinhard Gehlen in charge of the Gehlen Organisation who was a former werhmacht Major General and head of Nazi Intelligence.
World War 3 would've been fought by the Anglo-American empire using Nazi's and Nazi collaborators
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehlen_Organization
The CIA and MI6 were parachuting Banderites (OUN/UPA holocaust collaborators) into Ukraine as late as 1954
Between 1949 and 1954, a total of seventy-five ZCh OUN and ZP UHVR agents were parachuted into Ukraine. With Czech wartime pilots at the controls, the planes evaded Soviet radar screens by flying at 200 feet (61 meters) across the Soviet border and climbing at the last moment to 500 feet (152 meters), the minimum height for a safe parachute drop. In May 1952, one group was sent by submarine. In 1953 two groups used hot-air balloons that lifted from British and West German ships close to the Polish coast. Other groups tried to reach Ukraine on foot. Ukrainian MI6 and CIA agents did not realize that very few of their missions could meet with success, because of infiltration by Soviet intelligence.
The American and British intelligence services were already taking an interest in Nazis and Nazi collaborators, before the end of the war. They were also interested in people and organizations, such as the German Military Intelligence on the Eastern Front (Fremde Heere Ost, FHO), and the various Eastern European far-right movements, including the OUN, who could provide them with information about the Soviet Union or who possessed other valuable knowledge. With the help of the CIA, Reinhard Gehlen, former head of the FHO, established the Federal Intelligence Service (Bundesnachrichtendienst, BND), the intelligence service of West Germany. American intelligence protected Gehlen and his advisers.[1578]
And
Bandera had met with officials of the British Secret Intelligence Service (known as MI6), in the British zone at the end of the war. MI6 regarded Bandera as potentially useful for Cold War purposes, and therefore decided to help him.[1583] The American Counter Intelligence Corps (CIC) in Munich also protected Bandera from Soviet intelligence, although it was more interested in cooperation with the UHVR, which began to compete with the ZCh OUN after the war. The CIC concluded that Bandera’s extradition would “imply to the Ukrainians that we as an organization are unable to protect them, i.e., we have no authority.
..
Also they could have moved them back after Stalin’s death
You asked about Stalin and I'm telling you the justification for not moving them back until 1953 (Stalin's death) and 1956 (when Ww2 was still expected to break out)
did Khruschev’s revisionism infect literally the entire Soviet Union instantly after gaining power?
It should tell you something that nothing was done until Gorbachevs pererstroika. That nothing formal was done until 1989. Ie. when they pulled down the red flag and let the country explode into nationalist-ethnic violence throughout the entire eastern bloc. Where Soviet brothers shoot at each other decades later in Georgia/Armenia/Azerbaijan/Ukraine etc
You’re really fucking reaching here, is any of this reasoning actually documented anywhere in the Soviet archives or official party correspondence or are you just pulling theories out your ass?
Why would the Soviets do it? If we take your bourgeois view of history to it's logical conclusion then there was no fear of Crimea Tatar collaboration despite them setting up their own Waffen SS groups with the Nazis
Ah, right, so it was collective leadership under Stalin and then it was an overnight sudden switch to revisionist incompetence.
You mistake what I'm saying. In my view it was correct to not allow them back until at least 1956. Cuban missile crisis was 1962 so can't really believe they should've gone back then either.
If the only Soviet Leader that thought it was a good idea to let them back was Gorby in 1989 I'd probably argue it wasn't a good idea then either.
You’re just doing blind apologetics under the guise of being super very informed by randomly quoting marginally related stuff.
you might want to look at a map of Ukraine to understand what i'm saying. The Anglo-American empire was parachuting Ukrainian nazis into Ukraine as late 1954. Crimea was right next to Ukraine (and did become part of Ukraine under Krushchev). You think Western intelligence wouldn't see out the same people who formed SS groups amongst the Crimean Tatars?
I'm just saying I assume the Soviet leadership (both Stalin and post Stalin) and Soviet intelligence knew more than you or I do
Maybe consider that you’re too far gone if you support shit like ethnic cleansing a
Categorically reject they were ethnically cleansed. They were moved like a lot of people during world war 2 in Soviet Union and they were given better lands. The question was weather they should've been moved back at any point between 1956-1989 and were it not for the threat of imperialism they would've been
Because, like you said, the Soviets weren't a hive mind led by a communist Borg queen. Russian nationalism was a real political force in the Soviet Union which, while its influence is vastly overstated in western historiography, was never properly stamped out by either Lenin or Stalin.
This led to some fucked up shit like the forced deportation of the Tatars, or at least was responsible for them not being allowed to come back.
Pretending like it was ackcskcshly a very advanced 9D historical materialist calculation done by the Party is just ridiculous, sorry.
Also you still never really responded to being dunked on for lysenkoism.
This led to some fucked up shit like the forced deportation of the Tatars, or at least was responsible for them not being allowed to come back.
Here's Grover Furrs view and tbh I stick by it
-Collaboration among Tatars was massive
-By 1944 20,000 had joined the Nazis to fight the Soviets out of a population of 218,000 (take out women, old people and under 18s and this is massive portion of the 18-65 population)
-Trying to isolate the guilty would've been to split the Tatar nation
-Deportation kept this nation intact keeping their culture/language/peoples alive
-If they'd actually just shot the collaborators this would probably have destroyed the tatar nation by removing most of the men
-Their population grew by mid 1950s
-when they were able to return most of them didn't want to as they were well established
Stalin didn't do anything. The soviet Union under Stalin was ran under collective leadership. Something even the CIA agrees with
The Nazis occupied most of what we now call Ukraine and was only a few hundred miles from Crimea in 1944. A Slither of Soviet resistance separated Nazi occupied Ukraine from Crimea in 1944
https://omniatlas.com/maps/europe/19440129/
So did the Soviets move the Tatars because they wanted to "do a peoples ethnic cleansing" or did the Soviets move them to prevent what happened to all Soviet peoples under the flag of the 3rd reich?
Yes. Much better to have the Nazis ride over the skulls off the Soviet supporters among the Crimean Tatars, the Nazis to empower the collaborators and use all the socialists and communists for slave labour like the OUN/UPA in the rest of Nazi-occupied Ukraine . Who signed up for Einzatsgruppen, and SS squads and wholesale slaughtered their own people
The question was "what mistakes did Stalin make", I don't want to argue semantics here, you know what I meant.
Uh huh, so why didn't they bring them back after the war? And also why didn't they do the same for all civilians, the nazis had plans to eradicate or enslave pretty much every ethnicity east of Berlin.
After ww2, World War 3 was expected to break out at any moment. Soviet and Americans were shooting each others planes down in the Korean war (1950)
A lot of Americans and British were hoping to turn the Hungarian Colour Revolution of 1956 into a world war documented here
Stalin died in 1953.
Those are some pretty wild mental gymnastics.
If WW3 were to break out what would it matter where the Tatars were at the time? WW3 clearly wouldn't have been fought against nazis.
Also they could have moved them back after Stalin's death, or did Khruschev's revisionism infect literally the entire Soviet Union instantly after gaining power? What was that about collective leadership again?
No it would've been fought by the Anglo-American empire that rehabiliated Nazis and put them as heads of NATO, EU and even put Reinhard Gehlen in charge of the Gehlen Organisation who was a former werhmacht Major General and head of Nazi Intelligence.
World War 3 would've been fought by the Anglo-American empire using Nazi's and Nazi collaborators
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehlen_Organization
The CIA and MI6 were parachuting Banderites (OUN/UPA holocaust collaborators) into Ukraine as late as 1954
Stepan Bandera The Life and Afterlife of a Ukrainian Nationalist
Training them
And
..
You asked about Stalin and I'm telling you the justification for not moving them back until 1953 (Stalin's death) and 1956 (when Ww2 was still expected to break out)
It should tell you something that nothing was done until Gorbachevs pererstroika. That nothing formal was done until 1989. Ie. when they pulled down the red flag and let the country explode into nationalist-ethnic violence throughout the entire eastern bloc. Where Soviet brothers shoot at each other decades later in Georgia/Armenia/Azerbaijan/Ukraine etc
Removed by mod
Why would the Soviets do it? If we take your bourgeois view of history to it's logical conclusion then there was no fear of Crimea Tatar collaboration despite them setting up their own Waffen SS groups with the Nazis
https://www.axishistory.com/list-all-categories/121-germany-waffen-ss/germany-waffen-ss-regiments/1378-tataren-gebirgsjaeger-regiment-der-ss
You mistake what I'm saying. In my view it was correct to not allow them back until at least 1956. Cuban missile crisis was 1962 so can't really believe they should've gone back then either.
If the only Soviet Leader that thought it was a good idea to let them back was Gorby in 1989 I'd probably argue it wasn't a good idea then either.
you might want to look at a map of Ukraine to understand what i'm saying. The Anglo-American empire was parachuting Ukrainian nazis into Ukraine as late 1954. Crimea was right next to Ukraine (and did become part of Ukraine under Krushchev). You think Western intelligence wouldn't see out the same people who formed SS groups amongst the Crimean Tatars?
I'm just saying I assume the Soviet leadership (both Stalin and post Stalin) and Soviet intelligence knew more than you or I do
Categorically reject they were ethnically cleansed. They were moved like a lot of people during world war 2 in Soviet Union and they were given better lands. The question was weather they should've been moved back at any point between 1956-1989 and were it not for the threat of imperialism they would've been
Because, like you said, the Soviets weren't a hive mind led by a communist Borg queen. Russian nationalism was a real political force in the Soviet Union which, while its influence is vastly overstated in western historiography, was never properly stamped out by either Lenin or Stalin.
This led to some fucked up shit like the forced deportation of the Tatars, or at least was responsible for them not being allowed to come back.
Pretending like it was ackcskcshly a very advanced 9D historical materialist calculation done by the Party is just ridiculous, sorry.
Also you still never really responded to being dunked on for lysenkoism.
Here's Grover Furrs view and tbh I stick by it
-Collaboration among Tatars was massive
-By 1944 20,000 had joined the Nazis to fight the Soviets out of a population of 218,000 (take out women, old people and under 18s and this is massive portion of the 18-65 population)
-Trying to isolate the guilty would've been to split the Tatar nation
-Deportation kept this nation intact keeping their culture/language/peoples alive
-If they'd actually just shot the collaborators this would probably have destroyed the tatar nation by removing most of the men
-Their population grew by mid 1950s
-when they were able to return most of them didn't want to as they were well established
Grover Furr, Krushchev Lied, p107,108 https://archive.org/details/pdfy-nmIGAXUrq0OJ87zK
This is the great "mistakes" of Stalin
Uyghur genocide hours. 🥱
Tbh I need to read more on Lysenko and you've motivated me to do so
You're trying way too hard.