Everyone that takes metal seriously completely misunderstands metal as intentionally absurd, over the top, pushed beyond the boundaries of normality and into self aware ridiculousness. Demons and the coming hordes of hell and whatever screamed to death and edginess.
This is why combining it with other seemingly absurd things works, and generally doing whatever utterly ridiculous stuff you want to mix with it. Ridiculous combinations work because it is quite ridiculous to begin with.
Everyone that fails to understand that metal is ridiculous and silly doesn't really understand metal. There's a reason shit like Ladybeard works. It's ridiculous, accept it, lean into it and have fun.
Oh yeah, even a lot of the "tr0o kvlt" black metal bands are firmly tongue in cheek, just look at Darkthrone, Aura Noir and Immortal, or even Venom if you want to go way back.
And in my 25 or so years in the metal scene, 90% of the people I've met are just absolute goofballs.
Rofl god yes. So much ridiculous goofyness that people get up to at festivals, gigs and pubs. The metal events in particular had a far goofier vibe with sillier behaviour compared to something like the punk gigs where you could reasonably expect all the punks to be on drugs by the end of the night or the emo gigs where half the pub would be empty halfway through as they always went home early.
Metal dudes just wanted to "be metal", which itself meant to behave somewhat ridiculously.
Napalm Death are an interesting one! I think there's an interesting argument that when the punk political elements are added the songs become very serious, all the rage and screaming and death and skulls of metal suddenly gains a legitimate reason. Metal is absurd because none of that stuff really has a purpose, it's just there to be metal because that's what metal is, when the politics is thrown in suddenly all of that becomes legitimately dark. Where metal has no motive for the excess, punk on the other hand wears its motive quite openly. Combining the two definitely turns metal in a different direction to its usual roots.
I'm not sure about my thoughts on the usual anti-war metal, I can think of a few songs that fit this off the top of my head and you're right that they're hard to view as absurd in many ways. Soad does a bunch of this content and is both absurd and anti-war though.
I am just trying to understand you, examples help, I'm not really asking for "proof", it's not a debate it's a conversation. This kind of thing is going to be quite generalised, we're talking about feelings and emotions in art.
My general point is that when core parts of the identity of the entire genre are doing devil horns with your hands, screaming as loudly as possible and thrashing your head back and forth while applauding drink, drugs and DEATH to the excess... You have to accept that this is intentionally absurd, a push against the boundaries of normal.
Metal is an invitation to be excessive, and in that excess you find absurdity. I'm not saying that metal itself is all a parody, but that failing to understand that metal is at its very core an absurd and over-the-top invitation to scream and delight in death blood and chaos means a failure to understand metal. This is, at its core, ridiculous, and that is why it works when you combine it with the ridiculous.
This isn't an attack against metal, I like metal, I have listened to a wide variety of different types of metal and very much enjoyed the metal and alt-clubs I used to regular at every weekend. I am just deconstructing why taking it too seriously like some of these people do is arguably a misunderstanding of what metal fundamentally is.
Yeah sure that's a good descriptor. Jojo is completely ridiculous too, in a good way.
It's all about being intentionally excessive while staying within the boundaries of a particular theme. When you realise that "excess" is a fundamental component, you can take that excess to practically any degree you want and it works because it's literally the point. That's the same for Jojo and other things that have been influenced by it.
Yeah I mean "taking it seriously" to be lacking some sort of self awareness that the whole point of the genre is enjoying excess, and if you're determining that something isn't metal because it's not black and dark enough you're really killing the vibe of metal itself which is definitely about enjoying excess. Standing in a thunderstorm and giving the finger to a thunderbolt is ridiculous, it's also very metal. Determining that this or that isn't metal enough because there's not enough skulls is fundamentally antithetical to metal to me, it misunderstands metal as silly.
Unless someone is doing it with self-awareness, then I guess it becomes metal again?
I mean I would argue that genres like post metal and other atmospheric metal genres tend to focus on more grounded suffering and communicating that through contrasting the beautiful and the harsh, thematically and aurally. It's not exactly over the top and even tongue in cheek like you would get from power metal or some black metal (and plenty of other metal genres). I take it as seriously as I would any other piece from more self serious genres along the lines of, say, post punk.
Think of an album like Panopticon by ISIS. I have zero issue taking seriously the sound and themes presented on that album. Metal isn't inherently devil horns and pentagrams, even if that aesthetic surrounds its origins and persists.
Everyone that takes metal seriously completely misunderstands metal as intentionally absurd, over the top, pushed beyond the boundaries of normality and into self aware ridiculousness. Demons and the coming hordes of hell and whatever screamed to death and edginess.
This is why combining it with other seemingly absurd things works, and generally doing whatever utterly ridiculous stuff you want to mix with it. Ridiculous combinations work because it is quite ridiculous to begin with.
Everyone that fails to understand that metal is ridiculous and silly doesn't really understand metal. There's a reason shit like Ladybeard works. It's ridiculous, accept it, lean into it and have fun.
Oh yeah, even a lot of the "tr0o kvlt" black metal bands are firmly tongue in cheek, just look at Darkthrone, Aura Noir and Immortal, or even Venom if you want to go way back.
And in my 25 or so years in the metal scene, 90% of the people I've met are just absolute goofballs.
Rofl god yes. So much ridiculous goofyness that people get up to at festivals, gigs and pubs. The metal events in particular had a far goofier vibe with sillier behaviour compared to something like the punk gigs where you could reasonably expect all the punks to be on drugs by the end of the night or the emo gigs where half the pub would be empty halfway through as they always went home early.
Metal dudes just wanted to "be metal", which itself meant to behave somewhat ridiculously.
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Can you show me some metal that shouldn't be viewed with some self awareness that it is absurdist and over the top?
anti-war '80s thrash, Napalm Death and grind against inequality, Botanist, etc.
Napalm Death are an interesting one! I think there's an interesting argument that when the punk political elements are added the songs become very serious, all the rage and screaming and death and skulls of metal suddenly gains a legitimate reason. Metal is absurd because none of that stuff really has a purpose, it's just there to be metal because that's what metal is, when the politics is thrown in suddenly all of that becomes legitimately dark. Where metal has no motive for the excess, punk on the other hand wears its motive quite openly. Combining the two definitely turns metal in a different direction to its usual roots.
I'm not sure about my thoughts on the usual anti-war metal, I can think of a few songs that fit this off the top of my head and you're right that they're hard to view as absurd in many ways. Soad does a bunch of this content and is both absurd and anti-war though.
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I am just trying to understand you, examples help, I'm not really asking for "proof", it's not a debate it's a conversation. This kind of thing is going to be quite generalised, we're talking about feelings and emotions in art.
My general point is that when core parts of the identity of the entire genre are doing devil horns with your hands, screaming as loudly as possible and thrashing your head back and forth while applauding drink, drugs and DEATH to the excess... You have to accept that this is intentionally absurd, a push against the boundaries of normal.
Metal is an invitation to be excessive, and in that excess you find absurdity. I'm not saying that metal itself is all a parody, but that failing to understand that metal is at its very core an absurd and over-the-top invitation to scream and delight in death blood and chaos means a failure to understand metal. This is, at its core, ridiculous, and that is why it works when you combine it with the ridiculous.
This isn't an attack against metal, I like metal, I have listened to a wide variety of different types of metal and very much enjoyed the metal and alt-clubs I used to regular at every weekend. I am just deconstructing why taking it too seriously like some of these people do is arguably a misunderstanding of what metal fundamentally is.
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Yeah sure that's a good descriptor. Jojo is completely ridiculous too, in a good way.
It's all about being intentionally excessive while staying within the boundaries of a particular theme. When you realise that "excess" is a fundamental component, you can take that excess to practically any degree you want and it works because it's literally the point. That's the same for Jojo and other things that have been influenced by it.
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Yeah I mean "taking it seriously" to be lacking some sort of self awareness that the whole point of the genre is enjoying excess, and if you're determining that something isn't metal because it's not black and dark enough you're really killing the vibe of metal itself which is definitely about enjoying excess. Standing in a thunderstorm and giving the finger to a thunderbolt is ridiculous, it's also very metal. Determining that this or that isn't metal enough because there's not enough skulls is fundamentally antithetical to metal to me, it misunderstands metal as silly.
Unless someone is doing it with self-awareness, then I guess it becomes metal again?
I mean I would argue that genres like post metal and other atmospheric metal genres tend to focus on more grounded suffering and communicating that through contrasting the beautiful and the harsh, thematically and aurally. It's not exactly over the top and even tongue in cheek like you would get from power metal or some black metal (and plenty of other metal genres). I take it as seriously as I would any other piece from more self serious genres along the lines of, say, post punk.
Think of an album like Panopticon by ISIS. I have zero issue taking seriously the sound and themes presented on that album. Metal isn't inherently devil horns and pentagrams, even if that aesthetic surrounds its origins and persists.
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Let me listen to the whole thing tomorrow? I haven't listened to it before but it gives me 65daysofstatic vibes at a glance.
I really like Moth-Eaten Soul from the latest Panopticon
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Just lie, but like the few FB groups for black metal I'm in are shitholes, frankly. The admins acting all 'centrist'...
"well I don't like their politics" promotes some shitty neonazis with guitars "listen it's about the harshness, that's all"
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebzxIYpE_p4
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