I've got multiple white queer friends who are staunchly "vote blue no matter who" and dissolve into a trembling breakdown whenever they're asked about it, talking about how if republicans win the world is going to end etc. Like, full on angry-crying wojak, talking about third-party voting being a waste, Project 2025, etc. Coincidentally, these friends hardly ever engage with activism.
How do you choose to engage with these kinds of people? What's the general opinion on the vote in leftist circles, considering so many are refusing to vote for Biden (just checking the water temp since I've been largely offline save for activism and work lately)?
I've been away from Hexbear for a minute, apologies if this has been discussed!
Edit: Really appreciating all the replies! Really glad I can reliably come here for good discussions. Thanks everyone 
Slash gen., in case it's needed.
I don't. I haven't found it to be a worthwhile use of time. I have sympathy for queer people who are terrified of a Trump victory. The situation is horrifying, many people are already fleeing from GOP states as refugees. That kind of personal terror, if someone isn't already hardened by experience, theory, and hardship, is very difficult to overcome. So i don't bring it up with people who aren't comrades, and I mostly don't engage when others do. except on reddit, because fuck
That seems to be a good personal policy, I think I'll adopt it going forward. None of the conversations I've had with these people surrounding this topic have ever really led to anything productive, and I thought it was an issue with me not being well spoken enough, but I see now that that's just the typical experience in our political climate right now.
Yeah. People are justifiably terrified. Whatever happens in November the next few years are going to be very very bad and people are clinging desperately to hope. I can't blame them for that. I wish they could see more clearly, and had more resolve to bear whatever comes, but not everyone is suited to be a warrior nor should we expect everyone to. To quote one of Bush's henchmen, we go to war with the army we have, not the army we want.
I’m trans and my wife is trans too. We recently fled a red state to a solid blue state because of all the anti-LGBT legislation that was passed. It is absolutely terrifying to watch your rights slowly be stripped away and to see your community become more hostile to you everyday. It really sucks that our only choice for president is an old guy who supports genocide and is apathetic at best to LGBT and women rights and an old guy who supports genocide and is actively hostile to LGBT and women rights.
Sure would be cool if Biden did literally anything to support LGBT rights on a federal level
In real life? I tell them I don’t support genocidal parties and they don’t say anything back because they’re too scared to defend genocide in front of anyone who isn’t white
How do you choose to engage with these kinds of people?
Personally I don't. I'll go out of my way to avoid these people. If I'm forced to I just bully them.
What's the general opinion on the vote in leftist circles?
Consensus seems to be "If your line is not genocide, please go die." Maybe a little less crass but that seems to be it.
I thought voting was dumb and a waste of time before, but I'm certainly not endorsing someone who enables a genocide.
Makes sense! I wish there was a way for me to get through to them in a way that they wouldn't just completely ignore, since unfortunately some of these are friends I'd like to keep (though maybe I shouldn't.) They're extremely sore about their failure to convince me to vote for the guy who said Muslims are motivated by "ancient hatred."
Muslims are motivated by "ancient hatred."
I can't imagine trying to explain to a lib how racist that statement is. As soon as I heard "Biden's not a racist he's a democrat" or some dumb shit like that I'd blow a fucking gasket.
I'm going to give you additional context to make the implications even more insane: I come from a Muslim family and these friends are familiar with that fact.
My usual go to is, if you think the Republicans are that dangerous, then why are you voting for the party that thinks it’s very important to come to a middle ground with them? Either they concede, or implicitly admit they don’t actually think the Republicans are that dangerous, or they appeal to standards and norms fetishizing, in that case you corner them that they’re really concerned about the standards and norms with marginalized people as a fig leaf.
That being said, if your primary concern is that they’re not engaged in activism, well it’s probably better to just take a “do you want to do the bare minimum of civics?” tactic. Like if you can get them to show up and organize for the good fight, what does it matter that they keep doing the vote song and dance?
Remind them of the robust activist circles that emerged to resist trump and the solidarity everyone to the left of Nazis felt knowing we were hating Trump together. The election of Biden pacified that big tent and the libs went back to brunch, ignoring a genocide. If Trump were overseeing this genocide, we'd have 2020 levels of protest and movement-building again.
Ask them if there’s anything Biden could do to make them not vote for him. Just a yes/ no, don’t ask them for their specific red line.
If the say no- ask them how that makes them any different from Trump voters (they criticize his voters for following him blindly and the worst thing that can happen to them is being compared to a Trump voter.)
If they say yes; then it’s just degrees of difference from you and them.
Unconditional support means they don't ever have to do anything you want. Also it's undemocratic.
The comeback to that, for every election from now until the end of the empire, is that this if the Republican wins, there will be no more elections, so repeated game theory is inapplicable. My well-to-do friends will say this despite not lifting a finger to get themselves and their families out of the soon-to-be nightmare scenario.
If appeals to empathy and opposition to genocide don't work just let your position known and focus on other people. There is nothing you can do that would move them if they excuse genocide.
I just don't engage anymore. It usually ended in me saying "I don't know how to make you care about other people" and that's a conversation-terminator usually.
There's no depths the lib will not sink to vote blue. They're reduced to pointing at the genocide and the brutal cop crackdown and saying "wow this would be so much worse under Trump". It's nothing new though. Every election from Bill Clinton on has been vote for me and fuck you. Unsurprisingly, things have only steadily gotten worse.
Ask them what is their plan if Trump wins. Like what if you vote for Biden, and it's not enough, and Trump wins. I genuinely want to know. Like, it's a coin toss right? What are they doing to prepare?
Accept the disagreement and move on with your life. There is nothing you can realistically do. Many people need to be personally failed or broken by this country to see that this "blue no matter who" shit isn't going anywhere.
