American fascists, such as misanthropic or the atomwaffen's "National Socialist Order", nor are the fascist-infiltrated paramilitary groups aren't organizing anti-war protests, they're either participating in the war and getting blown up right now, or agitating for the war, or attempting to accelerate the american collapse through terrorist actions.
I'm done with this. If you and your org think this is the proper course, I'm not going to talk you out of it and you're not going to talk me into it. I'll tell you this, seeing who you all are willing to align with and who your twitter is platforming, I certainly don't feel like PCUSA are my allies right now.
You're more than entitled to your very respectable opinion. So as long as you're against American imperialism and against NATO intervention in the Ukraine War then I'll personally consider you an ally on the issue.
I would gladly burn this country to the ground and live in relative poverty if it would end American imperialism and I could live in peace with the woman I love.
While I'd much rather see an America in the outlines of Z Foster's 'Towards Soviet America' with some edits for modern circumstances, assuming that's not a possible path towards world socialism and peace, I genuinely hope your wish comes true.
I agree with you. But that's down the road by roughly two years.
Assuming that two years down the road that the ukraine war concludes, biden loses the whitehouse and trump or depantspiss wins. It would be inevitable that the hogs would go out to brunch and the ghouls would start ratcheting up the war machine with China in the cross-sights.
At this assumed future point, I would pivot towards agitating among the disempowered democrats to being anti-war against the republican government, seeing how it's easily more fertile grounds historically.
Libs and hogs, popularly speaking (as in ground level and not ghoul level) constantly operate in mirrored opposition to each other depending on who's ghouls are cranking the lever for the next 4 years. The only notable time there's been any noticeable change to the undercurrents is in the brief periods where the lever of power is handed off to the other party's ghouls and you see a subsequent fragmenting of the outer edges of the popular sides as one kicks the other out of the brunch seat and starts eating while the ousted one starts griping about not getting their treats. That fragmenting that occurs is the act of radicalization of the most politically conscious people that were within the status quo field that both libs and hogs jostle in. You can see this in how Bernie losing yet Biden winning resulted in the embryo of socialism emerging into the common parlance of America once more after decades of red-baiting.
Simply put, Libs only cling to liberalism until it starts stomping on their face while shouting "MODS! MODS!"
Also, on your note about hogs. We're capital C Communists, We literally champion Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Che, Sankara, Bishop, Foster, Hall, Il-Sung, Jong-Il, and all the countless other heroes of the people they consider 'scary people'. I'm pretty sure that's much more scary, since they're actively financing Ukraine fascism.
The issue is when people like Trump or DeSantis are in power the Libs don’t interpret that as liberalism but as fascism-lite and instead of becoming sympathetic to the left, suck up to whatever mediocre savior the DNC puts in front of them. So helping the right wing will probably make deprograming Libs harder, if anything Pete Buttchug running the country as things slowly go to shit would be better optics for us.
So I partially agree, partially disagree with this. I would agree with the first part that the material conditions of the majority of politically conscious liberals predispose them to accept any line from their preferred status quo warriors full hook, line, and sinker. The part I would disagree with is having the goal of deprogramming politically concious libs as their material conditions predispose them to supporting the status quo and any attempt to persuade them otherwise results in, at best, creating well-meaning succdems that fundamental want nothing to change and will backstab you the moment you push too hard, at worst repulse them into outright neoliberal anti-communism where they will support fascist death squads hunting you down.
I will also add on the inverse for politically conscious chuds. Their material conditions also push them back towards the status quo, with any attempt to persuade them usually results in at best weirdly conservative succdems - think Trudovik with Right SR characteristics - or at worst the fascist death squads that that neoliberal anti-communists empower to hunt you down.
I would argue the ideal target for for agitation is the generally apolitical worker with whom it doesn't really matter if they unconsciously lean towards liberals or conservatives as they're more interested in improving their material conditions over bickering in the world of pure idealism that is American political theater.
To tie this into where you said...
Honestly all this just backs up my theory that the left is in a shit spot where there’s not really any immediate action we can take that doesn’t have a high chance of just making things worse for us. The only real course of action is trying to predict the future and prep for action then.
I would argue in disagreement in that there's always actions that the Communist and Anarchist Left can take that has tangible benefits. This is accomplished by entering critical and supporting workplaces and actively agitating for collective unionization to materially improve the living conditions of your coworkers, or entering into critical and supporting workplaces that has weak unions and growing a more radical wing out of the discontented workers to supplant the union leadership that collaborates with the boss with more militant - and hopefully socialist - leadership. This, and all the other kinds of organizing work - be they tenant's unions, unemployed unions, non-profit insurance companies, ethnic community centers, youth education programs, food distribution centers, etc. - is the real substantive work that builds the power of the Communist and Anarchist Left in America. Continuing on to some other bits of your comment...
If there’s photos of you marching with some anti-vaxx YTer named “EpicKek” who supports Russia cuz the thinks Zelensky is a secretly-trans Satanist pedophile, there’s no way you can really explain away that.
I'll be blunt on this, your primary targets at any sort of political event is the people that attend protest events and not any of the organizers themselves, if your group is not also directly organizing the event. Ideally your goal would be to have agitprop pamphlets that's targeted to your audience and educates them with material facts that would point them towards taking a more knowledgeable anti-war position other than whatever claptrap theyve heard before. This could include facts about how this war started in 2014 and was planned for in '91, or playing to their biases and slipping in subtle messages such as "Both Communist China and North Korea support Russia in their war against Biden's NATO globalists and their nazi dogs in Ukraine, which is why Biden is constantly trying to start wars with all of them." And you take those pamphlets and larp as a trotskyite for a hot minute and hand them out as far as you can.
And a final note,
That’s shit you can keep on the DL.
No duh lmao nobody wants to get their ass kicked for being a larper. You should operate with subterfuge in mind. Which is why I referenced transmission belts.
It is your duty as a member of the imperial core to sabotage your own nation’s ability to make war in any way possible, regardless of whether it results in collapse, barbarism, socialism or anything else. Your first duty to the people of the world is to bring down your own beast and stop it’s attacks
It’s like voting in the guy who wants to murder kittens cuz you want to get the guy who murders puppies out of office.
No. Nobody is voting. It is like saying killing kittens is bad with some people who probably think killing puppies is ok. They aren't even killing puppies.
American fascists, such as misanthropic or the atomwaffen's "National Socialist Order", nor are the fascist-infiltrated paramilitary groups aren't organizing anti-war protests, they're either participating in the war and getting blown up right now, or agitating for the war, or attempting to accelerate the american collapse through terrorist actions.
I'm done with this. If you and your org think this is the proper course, I'm not going to talk you out of it and you're not going to talk me into it. I'll tell you this, seeing who you all are willing to align with and who your twitter is platforming, I certainly don't feel like PCUSA are my allies right now.
You're more than entitled to your very respectable opinion. So as long as you're against American imperialism and against NATO intervention in the Ukraine War then I'll personally consider you an ally on the issue.
I would gladly burn this country to the ground and live in relative poverty if it would end American imperialism and I could live in peace with the woman I love.
While I'd much rather see an America in the outlines of Z Foster's 'Towards Soviet America' with some edits for modern circumstances, assuming that's not a possible path towards world socialism and peace, I genuinely hope your wish comes true.
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to be blunt, unideological right-wing hogs who're usually herded by reactionary sheepdogs towards interests of empire.
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I agree with you. But that's down the road by roughly two years.
Assuming that two years down the road that the ukraine war concludes, biden loses the whitehouse and trump or depantspiss wins. It would be inevitable that the hogs would go out to brunch and the ghouls would start ratcheting up the war machine with China in the cross-sights.
At this assumed future point, I would pivot towards agitating among the disempowered democrats to being anti-war against the republican government, seeing how it's easily more fertile grounds historically.
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its more than long enough.
Libs and hogs, popularly speaking (as in ground level and not ghoul level) constantly operate in mirrored opposition to each other depending on who's ghouls are cranking the lever for the next 4 years. The only notable time there's been any noticeable change to the undercurrents is in the brief periods where the lever of power is handed off to the other party's ghouls and you see a subsequent fragmenting of the outer edges of the popular sides as one kicks the other out of the brunch seat and starts eating while the ousted one starts griping about not getting their treats. That fragmenting that occurs is the act of radicalization of the most politically conscious people that were within the status quo field that both libs and hogs jostle in. You can see this in how Bernie losing yet Biden winning resulted in the embryo of socialism emerging into the common parlance of America once more after decades of red-baiting.
Simply put, Libs only cling to liberalism until it starts stomping on their face while shouting "MODS! MODS!"
Also, on your note about hogs. We're capital C Communists, We literally champion Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Che, Sankara, Bishop, Foster, Hall, Il-Sung, Jong-Il, and all the countless other heroes of the people they consider 'scary people'. I'm pretty sure that's much more scary, since they're actively financing Ukraine fascism.
Also transmission belts are a thing.
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So I partially agree, partially disagree with this. I would agree with the first part that the material conditions of the majority of politically conscious liberals predispose them to accept any line from their preferred status quo warriors full hook, line, and sinker. The part I would disagree with is having the goal of deprogramming politically concious libs as their material conditions predispose them to supporting the status quo and any attempt to persuade them otherwise results in, at best, creating well-meaning succdems that fundamental want nothing to change and will backstab you the moment you push too hard, at worst repulse them into outright neoliberal anti-communism where they will support fascist death squads hunting you down.
I will also add on the inverse for politically conscious chuds. Their material conditions also push them back towards the status quo, with any attempt to persuade them usually results in at best weirdly conservative succdems - think Trudovik with Right SR characteristics - or at worst the fascist death squads that that neoliberal anti-communists empower to hunt you down.
I would argue the ideal target for for agitation is the generally apolitical worker with whom it doesn't really matter if they unconsciously lean towards liberals or conservatives as they're more interested in improving their material conditions over bickering in the world of pure idealism that is American political theater.
To tie this into where you said...
I would argue in disagreement in that there's always actions that the Communist and Anarchist Left can take that has tangible benefits. This is accomplished by entering critical and supporting workplaces and actively agitating for collective unionization to materially improve the living conditions of your coworkers, or entering into critical and supporting workplaces that has weak unions and growing a more radical wing out of the discontented workers to supplant the union leadership that collaborates with the boss with more militant - and hopefully socialist - leadership. This, and all the other kinds of organizing work - be they tenant's unions, unemployed unions, non-profit insurance companies, ethnic community centers, youth education programs, food distribution centers, etc. - is the real substantive work that builds the power of the Communist and Anarchist Left in America. Continuing on to some other bits of your comment...
I'll be blunt on this, your primary targets at any sort of political event is the people that attend protest events and not any of the organizers themselves, if your group is not also directly organizing the event. Ideally your goal would be to have agitprop pamphlets that's targeted to your audience and educates them with material facts that would point them towards taking a more knowledgeable anti-war position other than whatever claptrap theyve heard before. This could include facts about how this war started in 2014 and was planned for in '91, or playing to their biases and slipping in subtle messages such as "Both Communist China and North Korea support Russia in their war against Biden's NATO globalists and their nazi dogs in Ukraine, which is why Biden is constantly trying to start wars with all of them." And you take those pamphlets and larp as a trotskyite for a hot minute and hand them out as far as you can.
And a final note,
No duh lmao nobody wants to get their ass kicked for being a larper. You should operate with subterfuge in mind. Which is why I referenced transmission belts.
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OPTICS
Oh yeah we’ve gone full circle back to the DNC
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Not the strong argument you think it is here while posturing as the pure socialist
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You can’t have your cake and eat it to oh pure one who dabbles just a bit in liberalism
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Any prioritization of optics above your revolutionary defeatist duty is liberalism yes
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Yes you do, you refuse to participate in a mass movement against imperialist war machine because it would “look bad” on the “left”
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It is your duty as a member of the imperial core to sabotage your own nation’s ability to make war in any way possible, regardless of whether it results in collapse, barbarism, socialism or anything else. Your first duty to the people of the world is to bring down your own beast and stop it’s attacks
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Those “imperialists” are calling to defund CIA and abolish NATO currently and pulling crowds
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Loud mouth morons who happen to be saying something reasonable even if it is for all the wrong reasons?
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No. Nobody is voting. It is like saying killing kittens is bad with some people who probably think killing puppies is ok. They aren't even killing puppies.
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when they say we should go to war with China I will protest them with the democrats who will be against that war
Principled antiwar activists, apparently.
:doubt: