no, because as I said, the right's """anti-war""" position is more out of a contrarian admiration of Putin and there is no sincere anti-imperialism among the right.
wall of text if you care about this
They support Putin against "d3generate globohomo judeobolshevism" and other such nonsense spectres they've conjured up in their own heads. If you go to the right spaces on the internet (corners of 4chan for instance) you can see this in action, but you can also see it on Tucker Carlson. The American, Canadian, British and European right have taken to thinking of their own governments and international institutions as Communist conspiracies (despite enormous evidence to the contrary). They do not oppose the actual existing privileges of unipolar western hegemony, they just hate it when they see a NATO official wave a rainbow flag and they support Putin who they see as a based anticommunist Christian crusader fighting Satanism or something. They have an incoherent narrative. Meanwhile, "respectable liberals" who support these imperialist institutions have to convince their voters that imperialism is actually progressive, hence the bad-faith attempt to pretend their proxy war against Russia is about protecting progressive European values. Hence the pinkwashing of imperialism, the attempt to falsely gain support for imperialism by pretending these imperialist institutions are progressive, or attempting to support feminism/LGBT. This strategy dates to the 19th century, when British imperialism in Afghanistan and French imperialism in Africa were framed as attempts to liberate women from backwards cultures, and so on. There is a yin-yanging between the bourgeois liberals and conservatives in the imperial core, for lack of a better term. the conservative bourgeoisie will falsely appear progressive for being "anti-war" for contrarian and absurd reasons. The liberals bourgeoisie will support imperialism while appearing to support bringing "human rights" to the "backwards east" with "lethal aid."
The real cause of this war is complicated. Russia was a source of cheap energy for Europe. Nordstream Pipeline brought natural gas to Germany in a cheap, predictable way without fluctuating price points. The Germans then sold it to other Europeans. However America wanted to sell Europe liquid natural gas. Problem is, it's expensive, has to be shipped by boat, and fluctuates in price. Europe didn't actually want that shit. So they sought out Russian energy because it was cheaper. Meanwhile Ukraine was about to tighten its relationship with Russia in 2014. President Yanukovych was faced with a choice between a $17 billion high interest IMF loan that came with strings attached (anti-labor measures, austerity, deregulation, imperialist looting of natural resources, the usual), or a Russian aid package that was $15 billion, lower interest, and came with cheap energy deals. He chose the Russian aid package. So America couped him, brought Poroshenko (president) and Yatsenyuk (prime minister) to power. Poroshenko helped integrate nazi gangs into the Ukrainian military, who were receiving training and weapons from America through the CIA front National Endowment for Democracy. Meanwhile Yatsenyuk canceled the Russian aid deal and took the IMF loan, plunging ukraine into poverty, putting Ukrainian farm land into the hands of foreign (US-allied) companies, etc. The communist party of Ukraine was banned in 2015 for being "Russian influenced." The Russian language was no longer to be taught in public schools despite a significant population in the Southeastern half the country speaking it as a first language, and so on. Crimea held a referendum to become part of Russia. It passed. Russia annexed Crimea. Donetsk and Luhansk in Ukraine started their own separatist movements and the government began a civil war against Donetsk and Luhansk that saw the Odessa massacre in a trade union hall , as well as the shelling of Donetsk with artillery. So only after 8 years of civil war did Russia finally invade Ukraine when the threat of Ukraine joining NATO (NATO membership usually involves US stationing bases/weapons in Ukraine, close to Moscow) reached a fever pitch. The main cause of the war is US financial interference in Ukraine, and NATO expansion. Both NATO and Russia are attempting to have influence in Ukraine, but the escalation arguably began with the coup in 2014. I don't know much about the orange revolution in 2004, but some have pointed to that as also a US-backed color revolution. And to an extent, the privatization of the Russian economy by Yeltsin was also US-backed, since the USA poured billions into Yeltsin's election campaign, and supported his shelling of the Russian parliament. So the aggression on NATO's part goes back decades.
Yes every part of how they got to their position is backwards and stupid but as Putin isn't actually doing the war to repress foreign gay rights I'm not going to take that seriously
if they accidentally harm American imperial interests out of misguided bigotry I am still going to take the damage to imperial interests as a win
if they accidentally harm American imperial interests out of misguided bigotry
not what is happening. For them to harm American imperial interests, they would have to actually be opposed to them in a non-symbolic way. But their opposition is purely symbolic.
ah, but that's the sleight of hand. They'd rather be in a proxy war with China over Taiwan instead! Also another reason their opposition is purely symbolic is that it's a partisan opposition rather than a political opposition. If Ron DeSantis or Dan Crenshaw got elected tomorrow and continued escalating, I don't think they wouldn't care anymore.
Yeah but China isn't going to invade Taiwan and Taiwan is more resistant to US demands than Ukraine. For example Taiwan refused to toe the US policy line over Tibet
Taiwan isn't an independent country. It's part of China. This is acknowledged by the UN. So the entire logic of the country invading itself is an invention of US foreign policy.
Taiwan and Taiwan is more resistant to US demands than Ukraine. For example Taiwan refused to toe the US policy line over Tibet
True, but that doesn't change the fact that the """anti-war""" right wing in the US are more mad about the emphasis of US foreign policy than they are about US imperialism in general. It doesn't change the fact that their opposition is mostly to spending on the wrong war rather than spending on war at all. The """anti-war""" right is absolutely fine with NATO expansion and defense budget ballooning, they just hate when liberals spend money instead of them. This is the subject of the conversation. There is no real reason to build a coalition with these people or even critically support them when they do the """right thing""" for the wrong reasons.
Taiwan isn’t an independent country. It’s part of China. This is acknowledged by the UN. So the entire logic of the country invading itself is an invention of US foreign policy.
Not that relevant a distinction pretty clearly whatever they are they have their own separate miltary and don't do what the Chinese government says.
True, but that doesn’t change the fact that the “”“anti-war”“” right wing in the US are more mad about the emphasis of US foreign policy than they are about US imperialism in general
yes but in order to be against something in general you must be against it in the specific. They are anti this war and until the next war that means they are anti war
They are anti this war and until the next war that means they are anti war
ask them if they want to decrease the defense budget or end NATO and see where that goes. They don't care about the root cause of it. They want to snip a branch (for the entirely wrong reasons) but they'll scream bloody murder if you try to pull the plant out by its roots.
no, because as I said, the right's """anti-war""" position is more out of a contrarian admiration of Putin and there is no sincere anti-imperialism among the right.
wall of text if you care about this
They support Putin against "d3generate globohomo judeobolshevism" and other such nonsense spectres they've conjured up in their own heads. If you go to the right spaces on the internet (corners of 4chan for instance) you can see this in action, but you can also see it on Tucker Carlson. The American, Canadian, British and European right have taken to thinking of their own governments and international institutions as Communist conspiracies (despite enormous evidence to the contrary). They do not oppose the actual existing privileges of unipolar western hegemony, they just hate it when they see a NATO official wave a rainbow flag and they support Putin who they see as a based anticommunist Christian crusader fighting Satanism or something. They have an incoherent narrative. Meanwhile, "respectable liberals" who support these imperialist institutions have to convince their voters that imperialism is actually progressive, hence the bad-faith attempt to pretend their proxy war against Russia is about protecting progressive European values. Hence the pinkwashing of imperialism, the attempt to falsely gain support for imperialism by pretending these imperialist institutions are progressive, or attempting to support feminism/LGBT. This strategy dates to the 19th century, when British imperialism in Afghanistan and French imperialism in Africa were framed as attempts to liberate women from backwards cultures, and so on. There is a yin-yanging between the bourgeois liberals and conservatives in the imperial core, for lack of a better term. the conservative bourgeoisie will falsely appear progressive for being "anti-war" for contrarian and absurd reasons. The liberals bourgeoisie will support imperialism while appearing to support bringing "human rights" to the "backwards east" with "lethal aid."
The real cause of this war is complicated. Russia was a source of cheap energy for Europe. Nordstream Pipeline brought natural gas to Germany in a cheap, predictable way without fluctuating price points. The Germans then sold it to other Europeans. However America wanted to sell Europe liquid natural gas. Problem is, it's expensive, has to be shipped by boat, and fluctuates in price. Europe didn't actually want that shit. So they sought out Russian energy because it was cheaper. Meanwhile Ukraine was about to tighten its relationship with Russia in 2014. President Yanukovych was faced with a choice between a $17 billion high interest IMF loan that came with strings attached (anti-labor measures, austerity, deregulation, imperialist looting of natural resources, the usual), or a Russian aid package that was $15 billion, lower interest, and came with cheap energy deals. He chose the Russian aid package. So America couped him, brought Poroshenko (president) and Yatsenyuk (prime minister) to power. Poroshenko helped integrate nazi gangs into the Ukrainian military, who were receiving training and weapons from America through the CIA front National Endowment for Democracy. Meanwhile Yatsenyuk canceled the Russian aid deal and took the IMF loan, plunging ukraine into poverty, putting Ukrainian farm land into the hands of foreign (US-allied) companies, etc. The communist party of Ukraine was banned in 2015 for being "Russian influenced." The Russian language was no longer to be taught in public schools despite a significant population in the Southeastern half the country speaking it as a first language, and so on. Crimea held a referendum to become part of Russia. It passed. Russia annexed Crimea. Donetsk and Luhansk in Ukraine started their own separatist movements and the government began a civil war against Donetsk and Luhansk that saw the Odessa massacre in a trade union hall , as well as the shelling of Donetsk with artillery. So only after 8 years of civil war did Russia finally invade Ukraine when the threat of Ukraine joining NATO (NATO membership usually involves US stationing bases/weapons in Ukraine, close to Moscow) reached a fever pitch. The main cause of the war is US financial interference in Ukraine, and NATO expansion. Both NATO and Russia are attempting to have influence in Ukraine, but the escalation arguably began with the coup in 2014. I don't know much about the orange revolution in 2004, but some have pointed to that as also a US-backed color revolution. And to an extent, the privatization of the Russian economy by Yeltsin was also US-backed, since the USA poured billions into Yeltsin's election campaign, and supported his shelling of the Russian parliament. So the aggression on NATO's part goes back decades.
Yes every part of how they got to their position is backwards and stupid but as Putin isn't actually doing the war to repress foreign gay rights I'm not going to take that seriously
if they accidentally harm American imperial interests out of misguided bigotry I am still going to take the damage to imperial interests as a win
not what is happening. For them to harm American imperial interests, they would have to actually be opposed to them in a non-symbolic way. But their opposition is purely symbolic.
they are opposed to the war in Ukraine. Blocking money to the Ukraine war isn't symbolic it's real
ah, but that's the sleight of hand. They'd rather be in a proxy war with China over Taiwan instead! Also another reason their opposition is purely symbolic is that it's a partisan opposition rather than a political opposition. If Ron DeSantis or Dan Crenshaw got elected tomorrow and continued escalating, I don't think they wouldn't care anymore.
Yeah but China isn't going to invade Taiwan and Taiwan is more resistant to US demands than Ukraine. For example Taiwan refused to toe the US policy line over Tibet
Taiwan isn't an independent country. It's part of China. This is acknowledged by the UN. So the entire logic of the country invading itself is an invention of US foreign policy.
True, but that doesn't change the fact that the """anti-war""" right wing in the US are more mad about the emphasis of US foreign policy than they are about US imperialism in general. It doesn't change the fact that their opposition is mostly to spending on the wrong war rather than spending on war at all. The """anti-war""" right is absolutely fine with NATO expansion and defense budget ballooning, they just hate when liberals spend money instead of them. This is the subject of the conversation. There is no real reason to build a coalition with these people or even critically support them when they do the """right thing""" for the wrong reasons.
Not that relevant a distinction pretty clearly whatever they are they have their own separate miltary and don't do what the Chinese government says.
yes but in order to be against something in general you must be against it in the specific. They are anti this war and until the next war that means they are anti war
ask them if they want to decrease the defense budget or end NATO and see where that goes. They don't care about the root cause of it. They want to snip a branch (for the entirely wrong reasons) but they'll scream bloody murder if you try to pull the plant out by its roots.
Removed by mod
you know nothing about me.