We live in a fascist nation filled with fascist imperialists on both sides of the fake political spectrum. Any opposition to war is going to temporarily align with whatever fascist party is out of power, that is no reason not to oppose imperialist war
You had no problem rallying with libertarians in 2001 to oppose the Iraq War because the GOP was in power, so the DNC nag at the back of your head was soothed. Now it’s blaring alarm bells and it still has power over you, you still have residual liberalism holding you down
JFC, I'm not arguing against oppossing the war, quit putting words in my mouth. Starting a coalition with a group of people banging the war drums against China isn't anti-war, it's arguing for the bureaucraric reallocation of resources to another front. This is not opposing war. The only thing will functionally accomplish is laundering the reputation of a bunch of right-wingers who, when the time comes for war with China, will be able to hold up their credentials as having been against "the bad war", so you can trust them when they support "the good war". And they will say "see, even the left knows I'm trustworthy" and show everyone a picture of you and them holding hands.
And no, I didn't have a problem with the Libertarian Party opposing the Iraq War because I was a fucking 13 year old. I've since grown up and realized that you actually aren't going to get many working class people to buy into your message when they see you in a partnership with people who think the minimum wage and labor protections should be abolished.
How is calling for the abolition of NATO and the CIA furthering war towards China?
The Iraq war had a better anti-war movement than the current state of the US, so maybe you should take lessons of mass movements from them and stop being a purity scold, a perfect example of the isolating idealist failures of the western left
We don’t need to work with them beyond ending the NATO proxy war and throwing a wrench in the war machine.
It’s telling that you, again, prioritize your own domestic political agenda over stopping imperialist war and damaging the empire you are part of. Your priorities are just wrong, and you fundamentally do not see stopping the war as a worthy goal by itself. You are acting chauvinistically
Working with them to oppose a NATO proxy war, abolish NATO and defund the CIA will actually further imperialism, because of the idealist labels I have used!!
Oh, Lt. Col. Tulsi Gabbard is for the dissolution of the CIA and NATO? That's quite a view for an active US Army Officer.
The Iraq war had a better anti-war movement than the current state of the US, so maybe you should take lessons of mass movements from them and stop being a purity scold, a perfect example of the isolating idealist failures of the western left
This tendency stopped the Vietnam War and pressured South Africa into collapsing and stopped support of Rhodesia. All these movements involved libertarians and dumb normal people who don’t have good opinions on everything.
Just to be clear, your good and correct socialist opinion is that anti-war mass movements are pointless and we shouldn’t bother?
No, this tendency did not stop the Vietnam War. What bunch of American-centric nonsense. "Uh actually, it was all the white Americans holding up signs that stopped the Vietnam War". Fierce and effective resistance to imperialism by the Vietnamese people and the massive financial drain that the Vietnamese War caused on the US economy stopped the Vietnam War.
They also weren't the ones who stopped apartheid, either, South Africans stopped apartheid.
You are right, those white devils cannot do anything good! They should stop doing revolutionary defeatism, stop protesting war and be good little servants of empire
All I've seen you say is that white American hippies were actually responsible for ending the Vietnam War and not the Vietnamese people who were actually fighting imperialism.
But please, tell me more about how active Lt. Col. Tulsi wants to get rid of NATO and the CIA.
And Donald Trump didn't support the Iraq War. How did that go for Palestine? What about Venezuela or Bolivia? Was he actually principled in his anti-war stance, or did he just use his status as being "against the bad war" as a reason for why you should trust him about these "good wars"? Do you think that it benefits the blob to have people like an active US Army officer who they can hold up as "one of the good ones" if and when Ukraine goes really sideways for NATO, so that they can bang the drum for the next war?
Go ahead and oppose the war, but when you do it with some of these people, understand that you are helping to establish their credentials for the future war.
Both CPUSA and PCUSA have joined PSL at their rallies and have had their names left off of their official lists. Even larger trotskyite anti-war parties have participated and had their presence omitted.
I genuinely couldn't tell you why that is, but the answer is still the same. My party, and the members of other Communist parties are participating in the answer rally.
Yeah totally, it's cool to form an "anti-war coalition" with a bunch of people frothing at the mouth for a US-China war.
We live in a fascist nation filled with fascist imperialists on both sides of the fake political spectrum. Any opposition to war is going to temporarily align with whatever fascist party is out of power, that is no reason not to oppose imperialist war
You had no problem rallying with libertarians in 2001 to oppose the Iraq War because the GOP was in power, so the DNC nag at the back of your head was soothed. Now it’s blaring alarm bells and it still has power over you, you still have residual liberalism holding you down
JFC, I'm not arguing against oppossing the war, quit putting words in my mouth. Starting a coalition with a group of people banging the war drums against China isn't anti-war, it's arguing for the bureaucraric reallocation of resources to another front. This is not opposing war. The only thing will functionally accomplish is laundering the reputation of a bunch of right-wingers who, when the time comes for war with China, will be able to hold up their credentials as having been against "the bad war", so you can trust them when they support "the good war". And they will say "see, even the left knows I'm trustworthy" and show everyone a picture of you and them holding hands.
And no, I didn't have a problem with the Libertarian Party opposing the Iraq War because I was a fucking 13 year old. I've since grown up and realized that you actually aren't going to get many working class people to buy into your message when they see you in a partnership with people who think the minimum wage and labor protections should be abolished.
How is calling for the abolition of NATO and the CIA furthering war towards China?
The Iraq war had a better anti-war movement than the current state of the US, so maybe you should take lessons of mass movements from them and stop being a purity scold, a perfect example of the isolating idealist failures of the western left
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Yes I think they are serious about their list of demands. If a mass movement forms around a platform of demands, you must take it seriously
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I think this event is less fascist than the DNC and CIA is
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You are just loading up all these assumptions. I don’t agree that the movement at these rallies wants a war with China
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Isolationism and an end to empire. And to spend their tax money on their own country for once.
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We don’t need to work with them beyond ending the NATO proxy war and throwing a wrench in the war machine.
It’s telling that you, again, prioritize your own domestic political agenda over stopping imperialist war and damaging the empire you are part of. Your priorities are just wrong, and you fundamentally do not see stopping the war as a worthy goal by itself. You are acting chauvinistically
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Working with them to oppose a NATO proxy war, abolish NATO and defund the CIA will actually further imperialism, because of the idealist labels I have used!!
Do you ever read back your own gymnastics?
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Oh, Lt. Col. Tulsi Gabbard is for the dissolution of the CIA and NATO? That's quite a view for an active US Army Officer.
Yeah, how did that go. Did you stop the Iraq War?
This tendency stopped the Vietnam War and pressured South Africa into collapsing and stopped support of Rhodesia. All these movements involved libertarians and dumb normal people who don’t have good opinions on everything.
Just to be clear, your good and correct socialist opinion is that anti-war mass movements are pointless and we shouldn’t bother?
No, this tendency did not stop the Vietnam War. What bunch of American-centric nonsense. "Uh actually, it was all the white Americans holding up signs that stopped the Vietnam War". Fierce and effective resistance to imperialism by the Vietnamese people and the massive financial drain that the Vietnamese War caused on the US economy stopped the Vietnam War.
They also weren't the ones who stopped apartheid, either, South Africans stopped apartheid.
The white saviors have come to hexbear.
Protesting your empire rampaging across the world is white saviorism actually!
Now I’ve seen it all.
Please tell us more about how white bourgeois hippies stopped the Vietnam War dead in it's tracks.
You are right, those white devils cannot do anything good! They should stop doing revolutionary defeatism, stop protesting war and be good little servants of empire
"Oppossing the war" is when you make an active US Army officer one of your keynote speakers.
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All I've seen you say is that white American hippies were actually responsible for ending the Vietnam War and not the Vietnamese people who were actually fighting imperialism.
But please, tell me more about how active Lt. Col. Tulsi wants to get rid of NATO and the CIA.
First off I would argue you're confusing the bumbling hogs with the ghoul sheepdogs that want to herd them.
Second off they're frothing at the mouth to stop a US-Russia war in the here and now.
And Donald Trump didn't support the Iraq War. How did that go for Palestine? What about Venezuela or Bolivia? Was he actually principled in his anti-war stance, or did he just use his status as being "against the bad war" as a reason for why you should trust him about these "good wars"? Do you think that it benefits the blob to have people like an active US Army officer who they can hold up as "one of the good ones" if and when Ukraine goes really sideways for NATO, so that they can bang the drum for the next war?
Go ahead and oppose the war, but when you do it with some of these people, understand that you are helping to establish their credentials for the future war.
And democrats are?
If you opposed any war with them in the past understand you actively helped establish their credentials for the present war.
Is your group taking part on the ANSWER rally or are you only organizing with Libertarians and LaRouchites?
We've shown up to every anti-war rally that we've been aware of. It's pretty simple you know.
That's not an answer to my question. Are you officially participating in the ANSWER rally?
That is more than an adequate answer.
Both CPUSA and PCUSA have joined PSL at their rallies and have had their names left off of their official lists. Even larger trotskyite anti-war parties have participated and had their presence omitted.
I genuinely couldn't tell you why that is, but the answer is still the same. My party, and the members of other Communist parties are participating in the answer rally.
Thank you. I can at least respect that.
No sweat, mate. Thank you for being serious and honest.