Chi-na is the nation of the Chi (Qi) Dynasty, for instance. The name is derived from when English speaking traders made first contact. In Mandarin, it would be Zhong Guo - literally "The Middle Country" - but that loses context from an outsider looking in.
These names are effectively historical artifacts that have persisted through repetition. Fighting over them is utterly pointless, as they'll all change again as time and culture demand.
i changed it to be less confusing i was just trying to say the languages reflecting the names that were changed don't use anything like the english alphabet
Sure. But the sounds can be translated phonetically to roughly the same thing. Its just that the thing you're sounding out ("Qi"-na) is a abbreviated slang for "The Nation of the Qi Emperor". And that statement only has context relative to your local audience (mostly just 19th century sailors who speak your language).
Doggedly stomping your feet and demanding we change the names of things to an archaic throw-back is the picture of reactionary linguistics. If anything, we should be renaming countries with a more forward looking approach. I suggest we should rename the country "Maiden" because everything I own has "Made In China" stamped on it.
that statement only has context relative to your local audience
this is exactly it. whether 'Peking' or 'Beijing' produces the appropriate sounds for the word is contingent entirely on the english speaker's accent. revisions to that spelling based on changes to those accents or which english speakers are using the word more regularly is not a 'capitulation' to anti-imperial red China---english speakers were never trying to name the capital something else to disrespect them, we were just trying to say the fucking name! and why should the PRC care how we spell it, they don't speak english, but they will be confused if your words sound wrong---which was the exact opposite point of Wade-Giles, its just from the fucking 1850s
The meaning of the written symbol now is more than just a guide to phoneme production. Continued use of the 'Peking' spelling is typically used to reference pre-revolution China and British colonization.
But some Eton schooled dork insisting we call the capital of China "Peking" is purely backwards looking. It doesn't mean anything in the modern moment other than a reminder of English Chauvinism long since past its prime.
A progressive would signal to British People what Beijing is becoming.
Well, they've got historical connotations.
Chi-na is the nation of the Chi (Qi) Dynasty, for instance. The name is derived from when English speaking traders made first contact. In Mandarin, it would be Zhong Guo - literally "The Middle Country" - but that loses context from an outsider looking in.
These names are effectively historical artifacts that have persisted through repetition. Fighting over them is utterly pointless, as they'll all change again as time and culture demand.
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:kelly:
You mean Qin. Qi was a ducal state during the Zhou dynasty that comprises of modern Shandong.
Ah, fair enough.
i changed it to be less confusing i was just trying to say the languages reflecting the names that were changed don't use anything like the english alphabet
Sure. But the sounds can be translated phonetically to roughly the same thing. Its just that the thing you're sounding out ("Qi"-na) is a abbreviated slang for "The Nation of the Qi Emperor". And that statement only has context relative to your local audience (mostly just 19th century sailors who speak your language).
Doggedly stomping your feet and demanding we change the names of things to an archaic throw-back is the picture of reactionary linguistics. If anything, we should be renaming countries with a more forward looking approach. I suggest we should rename the country "Maiden" because everything I own has "Made In China" stamped on it.
this is exactly it. whether 'Peking' or 'Beijing' produces the appropriate sounds for the word is contingent entirely on the english speaker's accent. revisions to that spelling based on changes to those accents or which english speakers are using the word more regularly is not a 'capitulation' to anti-imperial red China---english speakers were never trying to name the capital something else to disrespect them, we were just trying to say the fucking name! and why should the PRC care how we spell it, they don't speak english, but they will be confused if your words sound wrong---which was the exact opposite point of Wade-Giles, its just from the fucking 1850s
The meaning of the written symbol now is more than just a guide to phoneme production. Continued use of the 'Peking' spelling is typically used to reference pre-revolution China and British colonization.
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I thought OP's bit was fairly illustrative.
But some Eton schooled dork insisting we call the capital of China "Peking" is purely backwards looking. It doesn't mean anything in the modern moment other than a reminder of English Chauvinism long since past its prime.
A progressive would signal to British People what Beijing is becoming.
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the really orientalist ones would translate 中国 to middle kingdom instead of country
Country is more colloquial