I became a vegan because the vegan comm here successfully bullied me into it. I am legitimately trying to do for other people what was done for me, which is highlight the cognitive dissonance until it can't be ignored. If you disagree that it's effective fine but please don't call me a wrecker.
So what else is sectarian apart from anti-speciesism? Anti-imperialism? Anti-racism? Or just what you don't like? Both marxists and anarchism should oppose these things if their theory is to be consistent, you're just flailing about because you know you're wrong
Wow it’s so shocking the way this thread went, I’m so surprised the vegan comments were left up and the non-vegan comments with higher agreement were removed. That never happens. 🙄
My favourite tactic is being hostile to everyone so that everyone hates me and nobody has changed
I also like lecturing and condescending to people and pushing my particular issue on ACAB spaces where all the brown people hang out and sucking all the fucking oxygen out of the room
Black people in the US are more likely to be vegan than white people. What's more hostile, me posting on hexbear.net or you paying for animals to be murdered?
Bloodmouths stop tokenizing POC for their animal murder agenda challenge
This is why I assume you and every other white vegan I meet is fucking racist.
You can't imagine people having genuine racial grievances with how you handle yourself and talk to people. White queer spaces have glaringly obvious racial issues but vegan spaces?
An goal that literally requires educating and yes, socially policing other people's behavior hasn't inherited centuries of racism and colonialism.
You hear it a lot because it's a real fucking problem regardless of whether it's taken in bad faith by people who don't give a shit or if people don't know how to articulate it.
Queer spaces usually are racist and it's extremely isolating and well documented
I am queer and yes it sucks that a lot of POC spaces are often also anti-queer
I prefer dealing with somewhat homophobic POC people because at least they can't be racist (in the same way) and weird and chauvinistic (especially paternalistic) towards me. They can be the same kind of passively hostile that I have to deal with every day.
If you are a POC in a queer space (almost always white dominated) you can either be a pet that has to behave or be ostracized. You can imagine the kind of disgusting liberal condescension and lecturing when you're a queer POC communist in a white queer space. I would rather deal with the feeling of being an outcast than being an outcast among outcasts.
Outcasts take all more abuse out on you because they've received more abuse and think you are stepping out of line.
Yes by default it's safer to assume that queer spaces will be pretty explicitly racist unless they are specifically spaces for poc.
White queer people are very often more racist than PoC cishets are homophobic.
I give a wide berth to white queer spaces for this reason because im tired of having to explain to white people that speaking to me in broken spanish, assuming offensive stereotypes about me or asking me if im uncut unprompted is super fucking racist.
In the same way that white vegans often disparage and demean PoC and especially indigenous cuisine as “savagery” as some supposed leftists categorize it and advocate a form of cultural cleansing in order to enforce their ideal of veganism.
Its chauvinistic paternalistic racism and people allow their frankly dogmatic clinging to veganism eclipse their decency to people who could otherwise be receptive to veganism if they could hold off on being racist as hell.
Its why PoC vegan communities often exclude and close off from White Vegans. They are vegan in spite of white vegans performing hostility to others, not because of.
I hope you get banned. You never fucking listen because you never cared about brown people to fucking begin with.
You can't handle a fucking intersection without using the word bloodmouth the same way you'd call me an actual slur.
Oh am I supposed to apologize for all the carnists that talk in bad faith? What do you sit with a group of black men and assume they're all homophobes too?
I'm telling you you genuinely don't know how to fucking talk to brown people and I don't even know if you care because it sounds like you've given up and you're just chasing clout.
This is very insensitive and you get clocked immediately as someone who cares more about their issue than the one in the space you’re dealing with (i.e police and immediate threats to one’s race, gender, safety, life and housing
This isn't a post about any of those things, it's a post about police shooting dogs. Animal welfare is relevant in a post about animal welfare.
You're literally calling a racist asshole wrecker, I don't see how I'm being disrespectful when you've posted multiple walls of text accusing me of caring more about my diet than people being lynched. If you're upset and want me to disengage I will though, my goal here isn't just to make people mad.
Do you know how fucking racist white vegans are? Genuinely?
Unfortunately as a PoC Vegan, I do know.
I don’t think I’ve ever met any group singularly more chauvinistic in a domineering kind of way especially towards PoC and especially indigenous communities than white vegans, bar except the usual chuds.
Like its not a good look when you’re specifically targeting brown people’s cuisine while using colonialist language and then turning around and comparing the plight of enslaved black people to animals.
It doesn’t make anyone look like a more committed animal rights activist or a better vegan, it just makes you look fucking racist.
Mind you the vegan PoC (mixture of black, mexican and korean people mostly here in LA) generally have the exact same issues with white vegans.
Its like they acknowledge that black people are more vegan than the overall population in the USA (8% vs 3%) but are utterly incapable of engaging with black people in a respectful manner besides to use them in arguments against other white people
I am pretty isolated as a striving vegan, like you say when I talk to people especially on the left I just assume that they are already inclined towards veganism and talk try to talk to them with respect and listen.
I haven't seen that kind of respect here until seeing your comment. I genuinely think it's just a safe vector for white people to take out their racial grievances because I have never seen that tactic actually work on a non-white person because it's always punching down and they never listen. Like you can't reach people if you already hate them, they can feel it and it's the same feeling of disgust as racism.
Like I am supposed to be pushed to change both myself and family by someone that already hates both myself and family. I see the posts on /c/vegan mocking indigenous people all the time. Yeah it's used as a strawman but I genuinely believe the number of militant carnists on Hexbear (and the principled left writ large) is very low and that most people do just feel bad about it, and even if I can communicate that well enough and do have the vocabulary to explain it I am almost always just treated terribly and dismissed as a strawman.
The thing is that most POC I know haven't been to college, they don't have vocabulary or rhetorical training to communicate these things so they are treated even worse than I am by white vegans. They're treated like this because the people disrespecting and abusing them were raised white first and chose to be vegan second, that's the primary contradiction that I think has to be understood and I don't know why it isn't the first thing taught to vegan cadres (or whatever they are called).
I have never once met a white vegan that greeted me with respect, and that's why I think it (white veganism, first wave veganism, whatever it can be called) is a dead end. All my friends (mostly non-white) had extremely hostile reactions to veganism, I tried reaching out to them as equals and got them to open up to the idea just by asking them "why not" and offering them vegan food and recipes. Getting them to switch to plant milk, etc. It's not much but it was progress and it was easy, I am sure it will be much harder beyond that but I always try to be with them.
I really do believe it's racism, some strain of calvinism, and chauvinism, I don't see it working at all and that's why it feels like they're doing it for themselves or some idea in their heads rather than the people and animals in front of them.
"How dare you use a specific case of animal cruelty to challenge people to oppose animal cruelty more generally! This is racism, somehow!"
Veganism is always racist, or sexist, or imperialist, or homophobic, or whatever other bizarre accusation allows people to justify not changing their habits. It's kind of incredible to watch the mental gymnastics people will go through, it honestly seems like more effort to come up with this stuff than to simply not eat meat.
No. Y'all always try to shift and hijack the conversation to be about something else because it's the only way to defend your position. A comment about veganism under a post about animal cruelty is not out of place or racist, sorry.
Reminder for carnists that you're not allowed to be mad at this
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Luckily veganism and animal liberation aren't a tendency, they're just objectively correct
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Saying trans rights is sectarianism too then, right?
:pika-pickaxe:
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:vegan-liberation-rad:
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Enver_Hoxha except you're cashing in your diet clout on /c/ACAB
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I became a vegan because the vegan comm here successfully bullied me into it. I am legitimately trying to do for other people what was done for me, which is highlight the cognitive dissonance until it can't be ignored. If you disagree that it's effective fine but please don't call me a wrecker.
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So what else is sectarian apart from anti-speciesism? Anti-imperialism? Anti-racism? Or just what you don't like? Both marxists and anarchism should oppose these things if their theory is to be consistent, you're just flailing about because you know you're wrong
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Wow it’s so shocking the way this thread went, I’m so surprised the vegan comments were left up and the non-vegan comments with higher agreement were removed. That never happens. 🙄
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"Never stop explaining" is when you drive-by and wokescold on ACAB to feel good
Do you need a drawing on why killing animals is just like killing animals?
My favourite tactic is being hostile to everyone so that everyone hates me and nobody has changed
I also like lecturing and condescending to people and pushing my particular issue on ACAB spaces where all the brown people hang out and sucking all the fucking oxygen out of the room
Wow where'd all the brown people go?
Black people in the US are more likely to be vegan than white people. What's more hostile, me posting on hexbear.net or you paying for animals to be murdered?
Bloodmouths stop tokenizing POC for their animal murder agenda challenge
This is why I assume you and every other white vegan I meet is fucking racist.
You can't imagine people having genuine racial grievances with how you handle yourself and talk to people. White queer spaces have glaringly obvious racial issues but vegan spaces?
An goal that literally requires educating and yes, socially policing other people's behavior hasn't inherited centuries of racism and colonialism.
You hear it a lot because it's a real fucking problem regardless of whether it's taken in bad faith by people who don't give a shit or if people don't know how to articulate it.
So that's why you're anti queer? Because queer soaces can be racist?
Queer spaces usually are racist and it's extremely isolating and well documented
I am queer and yes it sucks that a lot of POC spaces are often also anti-queer
I prefer dealing with somewhat homophobic POC people because at least they can't be racist (in the same way) and weird and chauvinistic (especially paternalistic) towards me. They can be the same kind of passively hostile that I have to deal with every day.
If you are a POC in a queer space (almost always white dominated) you can either be a pet that has to behave or be ostracized. You can imagine the kind of disgusting liberal condescension and lecturing when you're a queer POC communist in a white queer space. I would rather deal with the feeling of being an outcast than being an outcast among outcasts.
Outcasts take all more abuse out on you because they've received more abuse and think you are stepping out of line.
Yes by default it's safer to assume that queer spaces will be pretty explicitly racist unless they are specifically spaces for poc.
White queer people are very often more racist than PoC cishets are homophobic.
I give a wide berth to white queer spaces for this reason because im tired of having to explain to white people that speaking to me in broken spanish, assuming offensive stereotypes about me or asking me if im uncut unprompted is super fucking racist.
In the same way that white vegans often disparage and demean PoC and especially indigenous cuisine as “savagery” as some supposed leftists categorize it and advocate a form of cultural cleansing in order to enforce their ideal of veganism.
Its chauvinistic paternalistic racism and people allow their frankly dogmatic clinging to veganism eclipse their decency to people who could otherwise be receptive to veganism if they could hold off on being racist as hell.
Its why PoC vegan communities often exclude and close off from White Vegans. They are vegan in spite of white vegans performing hostility to others, not because of.
I hope you get banned. You never fucking listen because you never cared about brown people to fucking begin with.
You can't handle a fucking intersection without using the word bloodmouth the same way you'd call me an actual slur.
Oh am I supposed to apologize for all the carnists that talk in bad faith? What do you sit with a group of black men and assume they're all homophobes too?
I'm telling you you genuinely don't know how to fucking talk to brown people and I don't even know if you care because it sounds like you've given up and you're just chasing clout.
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This isn't a post about any of those things, it's a post about police shooting dogs. Animal welfare is relevant in a post about animal welfare.
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You're literally calling a racist asshole wrecker, I don't see how I'm being disrespectful when you've posted multiple walls of text accusing me of caring more about my diet than people being lynched. If you're upset and want me to disengage I will though, my goal here isn't just to make people mad.
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Then you pretty much failed 🤷🏽♂️
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Unfortunately as a PoC Vegan, I do know.
I don’t think I’ve ever met any group singularly more chauvinistic in a domineering kind of way especially towards PoC and especially indigenous communities than white vegans, bar except the usual chuds.
Like its not a good look when you’re specifically targeting brown people’s cuisine while using colonialist language and then turning around and comparing the plight of enslaved black people to animals.
It doesn’t make anyone look like a more committed animal rights activist or a better vegan, it just makes you look fucking racist.
I'm genuinely crying comrade thank you for understanding
Mind you the vegan PoC (mixture of black, mexican and korean people mostly here in LA) generally have the exact same issues with white vegans.
Its like they acknowledge that black people are more vegan than the overall population in the USA (8% vs 3%) but are utterly incapable of engaging with black people in a respectful manner besides to use them in arguments against other white people
I am pretty isolated as a striving vegan, like you say when I talk to people especially on the left I just assume that they are already inclined towards veganism and talk try to talk to them with respect and listen.
I haven't seen that kind of respect here until seeing your comment. I genuinely think it's just a safe vector for white people to take out their racial grievances because I have never seen that tactic actually work on a non-white person because it's always punching down and they never listen. Like you can't reach people if you already hate them, they can feel it and it's the same feeling of disgust as racism.
Like I am supposed to be pushed to change both myself and family by someone that already hates both myself and family. I see the posts on /c/vegan mocking indigenous people all the time. Yeah it's used as a strawman but I genuinely believe the number of militant carnists on Hexbear (and the principled left writ large) is very low and that most people do just feel bad about it, and even if I can communicate that well enough and do have the vocabulary to explain it I am almost always just treated terribly and dismissed as a strawman.
The thing is that most POC I know haven't been to college, they don't have vocabulary or rhetorical training to communicate these things so they are treated even worse than I am by white vegans. They're treated like this because the people disrespecting and abusing them were raised white first and chose to be vegan second, that's the primary contradiction that I think has to be understood and I don't know why it isn't the first thing taught to vegan cadres (or whatever they are called).
I have never once met a white vegan that greeted me with respect, and that's why I think it (white veganism, first wave veganism, whatever it can be called) is a dead end. All my friends (mostly non-white) had extremely hostile reactions to veganism, I tried reaching out to them as equals and got them to open up to the idea just by asking them "why not" and offering them vegan food and recipes. Getting them to switch to plant milk, etc. It's not much but it was progress and it was easy, I am sure it will be much harder beyond that but I always try to be with them.
I really do believe it's racism, some strain of calvinism, and chauvinism, I don't see it working at all and that's why it feels like they're doing it for themselves or some idea in their heads rather than the people and animals in front of them.
They won’t learn until they acknowledge their racism. Which for some white people is impossible
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"How dare you use a specific case of animal cruelty to challenge people to oppose animal cruelty more generally! This is racism, somehow!"
Veganism is always racist, or sexist, or imperialist, or homophobic, or whatever other bizarre accusation allows people to justify not changing their habits. It's kind of incredible to watch the mental gymnastics people will go through, it honestly seems like more effort to come up with this stuff than to simply not eat meat.
I'm not even justifying carnism. Holy fucking shit if I have to listen to another white person talk over me I am going to shoot someone.
Maybe stop automatically taking allegations of racial insensitivity in bad faith just because you've seen it done in bad faith before.
No. Y'all always try to shift and hijack the conversation to be about something else because it's the only way to defend your position. A comment about veganism under a post about animal cruelty is not out of place or racist, sorry.
Disengage
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Most compassionate carnist
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