Like, it's probably more noticeable that you don't have any romantic or sexual relationships than it would be if you don't have any true, close, platonic connections. Romantic and sexual relationships have things that are very obvious and for the most part, exclusive to them, such as kissing, making out, sex, etc. Platonic relationships that are true and close are not as visible, they're more feelings on the inside (not to say that there's none of those feelings involved with romantic and sexual relationships). If you look exclusively at the activities done with a platonic friendship, it's not very different from an acquaintanceship, or an activity partner.

I've met people who claim they have friends, but they're just coworkers they talk to a bit, guys they play games with, or guys they see at the sports bar a lot. Not people who actually support each other or any true connection. Now granted, there's nothing wrong with having those acquaintanceships or activity partners, and it can be argued that they're necessary for a fulfilling life, but they're not the same as a true connection or friendship. If you've never had that or hadn't had it in a while, it can be hard to tell what that feels like.

The only way to make these connections is through social skills, which a lot of people lack. They lack social skills, so they don't make connections, platonic or romantic. Since romantic and sexual connections have more exclusive activities, it's more easy to notice them than the lack of true friends. So I'm wondering if all this talk about the lack of romance and sex is really just poor social skills.

    • Frank [he/him, he/him]
      ·
      2 years ago

      B. Men are poorly/negatively socialized, and this could mean all sorts of things depending on the individual, but generally: platonic relationships, especially with other men, are less intimate and more competitive, aggression is a common tool for conflict resolution, empathy is less common and exercised less, emotional expression is tightly regulated and healthy emotional expression and vulnerability are suppressed and harshly punished, and men don’t have much skill socializing with others or navigating complex social relations because that’s neither desired nor rewarded in them.

      I've found based on discussions in various forums that lot of men are aware of this and deeply concerned with it. It's not something individuals can address in most cases. Being aware of the problem doesn't really provide a defense from it. "What do people not know about men" threads on Reddit are often full of responses about how men aren't allowed to express emotion and that they're even shunned by their otherwise progressive intimate partners in many cases. A common refrain is that after so many attempts to be emotionally vulnerable and communicate their feelings to others just to be rejected, sometimes with serious consequences, a lot of men close up and fortify their emotions to protect themselves from the social violence of not conforming to the expected masculine norms.

      I've also heard some extremely enlightening discussion from trans men about how the change from being perceived as a woman to being perceived as a man changed how people treated them. I've heard men talk about the pain of losing intimate relationships when people began to view them as men, and the confusion and sense of loss that came with that. I think it highlights the degree to which the alienation of men from their emotions has a very strong structural component that often overwhelms any attempts by the individual to overcome it.

    • bigboopballs [he/him]
      ·
      2 years ago

      especially since it’s men’s responsibility to approach in the first place.

      oh, great. what a wonderfully stupid and unnecessary rule for people to be holding on to.

    • bigboopballs [he/him]
      ·
      2 years ago

      Some of my social skills are exceptional, others are very very poor.

      which ones are exceptional and which ones are poor? I've never seen social skills divided up into different parts

      and asking women out ranged from fruitless to frightening.

      what happened that was frightening?

      I’m not very attractive, nor am I masculine. I am very fit, and I do get along well with people, but I’m a little shy. Some of my social skills are exceptional, others are very very poor. Originally, I didn’t have much success in dating. Almost everyone online my age is just looking for hookups

      I'm in a similar position. Don't know how attractive women would consider me, I'm averagely masculine (at least physically). Pretty fit, can get along well with people but extremely shy. Never had any success dating, but would love hookups if I could get them. Is there really a lot of women online looking for hookups? The women on apps are so not my people / it's obvious they would never pick me because of my lack of money / no car, no place of my own, etc. Wonder if attitudes are any different in Canada than in USA.

      • StewartCopelandsDad [he/him]
        ·
        2 years ago

        Never had any success dating, but would love hookups if I could get them. Is there really a lot of women online looking for hookups? The women on apps are so not my people / it’s obvious they would never pick me because of my lack of money / no car, no place of my own, etc.

        In the US there are and I'm sure you could link up. Mostly on Tinder, there's a few apps like Feeld that are more specialized. Hookups are kind of shitty though because you may be having sex with someone who doesn't trust you, a male stranger, and will do things like fake an orgasm rather than risk you getting mad if they say "this isn't working for me let's try something else". Because you're dangerous. Feels terrible. I don't think I've ever had sex on the first date be a positive experience.

        IMO sweet spot is a FWB. Sure there are women who also despair of finding an actual partner on an app but think consistent / safe / maybe fulfilling sex is an achievable goal.

        I think some (most?) of these women don't select "short term fun" because they don't want to be inundated by harassment messages. And also because slut shaming is still a thing I guess. They'll have some risqué photos and be looking for "friends", or they're only here for the weekend, etc. Slept with some people who seemed much cooler than me. If you want to get laid it is EXTREMELY important to have good photos.

    • constellation [none/use name]
      ·
      2 years ago

      traits that most straight women are explicitly NOT looking for in a partner

      Oh, come on. They say over and over again they want sensitive caring men who consider their feelings.