Liu Cixin’s the Three-Body Problem book trilogy is one of the world’s bestselling Chinese sci-fi series, being read and endorsed by figures such as George R.R. Martin and Barack Obama. In Chinese public debates, however, critics highlight the series’ social Darwinist, misogynistic, and totalitarian tendencies, raising concerns about how the trilogy has been used by […]
I don't really agree with this and totally fucking love these books. However, it is a fairly interesting essay.
I love the books but the misogyny really ramped up starting with book 2, and other comrades here have pointed out how reactionary the dark forest thing is.
a time travel machine to hold Liu at gunpoint and force him to delete the stupid fucking imaginary waifu subplot that takes up half the book and goes nowhere
I think for me the misogyny is less pronounced (still problematic) than ageism and the boomerism are in his work.
Liu focus on theme/ideas before good characters, he talks about it in an interview where the characters are “unhuman” because he uses them represents concept. I think he explicitly uses (his word) Luo ji and chengxin as example. Luoji, a man, represents logic and cold and calculation and Cheng Xin, a woman, represents emotion, heart (humanism) which is super problematic itself.
In the second book, it is represented that the status quo of the dark forest which requires logic and game theory to annihilate others to survive. However, Chengxin’s humanism is portrayed as seeing the wrongness of the dark forest. I think the end of the trilogy proves her right. I think Liu tries to convey that cold and lack of humanism is ultimately the downfall of the civilization, but since he is not focus on writing good characters (i personally think he is a bad writer and never talk to women) makes it looks at the end as some gendered (and cishet normative) deterministic take that it makes my eyes roll.
As of his ageism (shown in the bunker era of 3BP being post-gendered, effeminate, weak , also in his book supernova era and also that novella about filial poety) is a belief that he unironically holds.
Tldr he is a bad writer with some ok world building, but since he is the first chinese sci-fi writer that made it to the mainstream, we have to suffer his writings.
Edit: it happens that better chinese scifi books are written by women authors like Hao Jingfang and Xia Jia
When the Aliens put all of humanity in a reservation in Australia the population density is still lower than Gaza. Take out the sci-fi elements and sub in all humans for just Native Americans and you'll find that Three Body is actually far more optimistic than real life. The Aliens in Three Body invaded earth because they believed they had no other option, real world colonial regimes will do so for purely ideological reasons if given the opportunity.
real world colonial regimes will do so for purely ideological reasons
Actually we shouldn't forget that the prime motivator for colonialism is, in reality, simply also material conditions. Economic growth and subjugation is the true motivator for colonialism on a mass scale, these superstructural concepts used to justify would vanish quickly if there was no longer the incentive for infinite growth
Yes, however, they colonized because their economies would crash which would mean toppling the economic order which helped keep those on top, on top. So for them the tendency for their economy to explode without colonial extraction could be seen as akin to a world ending disaster like the destruction of their planet or tsunamis wiping out Europe.
The aliens are basically amerikkka. Try to limit the technical development so the people you want to conquer can't fight back? Force those you conquer into shitty reservations to starve? Sounds like someone we know.
The whole series was conceived from an author who grew up with the Cold War mentality and once you have understood this perspective, you start to see why the Dark Forest theory which was born out of game theory resonates with people who have experienced the threats of being colonized and annihilated by foreign imperialist powers acting in pursuit of relentless capital expansion.
Unless the way the books articulate the theory is substantially different from how other people are articulating the theory, it isn't very good game theory. And isn't what you're saying just the Horizontal Alliance vs Vertical Alliance of the Warring States period except from the POV of the non-hegemon?
I mean the Trisolarans saw that public opinion towards them was shifting massively positive. With Cheng Xin as the new swordholder, humanity would've been far more empowered to let all of Trisolaris immigrate into the solar system. But no, they decide to attack instead?
Honestly I feel like some ideas in the book just break down despite the good world building. I really did enjoy the series but it seems there are a million holes that are either because I missed something, or because I just didn't get it, (or the secret third option, it just has holes!).
I think the biggest hole is that over the like 400 years humanity had, the approximately 200 years from the start of the crisis era to the start of the deterrence era are where the most technological development happened, and that's despite the sophon block! The next 200 years seem to basically have 1 big invention and that's it!
I mean the Trisolarans saw that public opinion towards them was shifting massively positive. With Cheng Xin as the new swordholder, humanity would've been far more empowered to let all of Trisolaris immigrate into the solar system. But no, they decide to attack instead?
This, too, sounds similar to the early stages of colonization.
True enough I suppose, given the Australia plan I always got the impression that the Trisolarans still felt contempt towards humanity. A very colonial mindset, and very funny considering Trisolaran civilization "liberalized" after contact with Earth.
I guess I was so tuned out by the waifu subplot in book 2 that I didn't really pay attention.
Like if you have 900 pages of this reactionary belief is how the unvierse works and is the axiom the entire first book is built on, does it matter that you subvert it in the epilogue?
I love the books but the misogyny really ramped up starting with book 2, and other comrades here have pointed out how reactionary the dark forest thing is.
If you finish it dark forest theory being reactionary is the whole point. The misogyny is wild though
a time travel machine to hold Liu at gunpoint and force him to delete the stupid fucking imaginary waifu subplot that takes up half the book and goes nowhere
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The waifu stuff is also present in Ball lightning and he also approved that 3BP fanfic which is basically incelcore literature
oh my god I read the fanfic and it was SOOOOOO CRINGE AHHHHHHHH
ruined the trilogy for me tbh
I think for me the misogyny is less pronounced (still problematic) than ageism and the boomerism are in his work.
Liu focus on theme/ideas before good characters, he talks about it in an interview where the characters are “unhuman” because he uses them represents concept. I think he explicitly uses (his word) Luo ji and chengxin as example. Luoji, a man, represents logic and cold and calculation and Cheng Xin, a woman, represents emotion, heart (humanism) which is super problematic itself.
In the second book, it is represented that the status quo of the dark forest which requires logic and game theory to annihilate others to survive. However, Chengxin’s humanism is portrayed as seeing the wrongness of the dark forest. I think the end of the trilogy proves her right. I think Liu tries to convey that cold and lack of humanism is ultimately the downfall of the civilization, but since he is not focus on writing good characters (i personally think he is a bad writer and never talk to women) makes it looks at the end as some gendered (and cishet normative) deterministic take that it makes my eyes roll.
As of his ageism (shown in the bunker era of 3BP being post-gendered, effeminate, weak , also in his book supernova era and also that novella about filial poety) is a belief that he unironically holds.
Tldr he is a bad writer with some ok world building, but since he is the first chinese sci-fi writer that made it to the mainstream, we have to suffer his writings.
Edit: it happens that better chinese scifi books are written by women authors like Hao Jingfang and Xia Jia
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Oh wow I didn’t know about the editor asking him to do some changes to the character.
This confirms that STEMslord like Liu can’t write once again
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Liu is certainly a 工具
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I think this furthers a discussion on Gender roles in modern Chinese (where liu and I are from) society
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When the Aliens put all of humanity in a reservation in Australia the population density is still lower than Gaza. Take out the sci-fi elements and sub in all humans for just Native Americans and you'll find that Three Body is actually far more optimistic than real life. The Aliens in Three Body invaded earth because they believed they had no other option, real world colonial regimes will do so for purely ideological reasons if given the opportunity.
Actually we shouldn't forget that the prime motivator for colonialism is, in reality, simply also material conditions. Economic growth and subjugation is the true motivator for colonialism on a mass scale, these superstructural concepts used to justify would vanish quickly if there was no longer the incentive for infinite growth
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You have a point. But also real world Europeans weren't colonizing under the belief that Tsunamis would inevitably drown all of Europe or something.
Yes, however, they colonized because their economies would crash which would mean toppling the economic order which helped keep those on top, on top. So for them the tendency for their economy to explode without colonial extraction could be seen as akin to a world ending disaster like the destruction of their planet or tsunamis wiping out Europe.
The aliens are basically amerikkka. Try to limit the technical development so the people you want to conquer can't fight back? Force those you conquer into shitty reservations to starve? Sounds like someone we know.
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Unless the way the books articulate the theory is substantially different from how other people are articulating the theory, it isn't very good game theory. And isn't what you're saying just the Horizontal Alliance vs Vertical Alliance of the Warring States period except from the POV of the non-hegemon?
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Opinion discarded.
I mean the Trisolarans saw that public opinion towards them was shifting massively positive. With Cheng Xin as the new swordholder, humanity would've been far more empowered to let all of Trisolaris immigrate into the solar system. But no, they decide to attack instead?
Honestly I feel like some ideas in the book just break down despite the good world building. I really did enjoy the series but it seems there are a million holes that are either because I missed something, or because I just didn't get it, (or the secret third option, it just has holes!).
I think the biggest hole is that over the like 400 years humanity had, the approximately 200 years from the start of the crisis era to the start of the deterrence era are where the most technological development happened, and that's despite the sophon block! The next 200 years seem to basically have 1 big invention and that's it!
This, too, sounds similar to the early stages of colonization.
True enough I suppose, given the Australia plan I always got the impression that the Trisolarans still felt contempt towards humanity. A very colonial mindset, and very funny considering Trisolaran civilization "liberalized" after contact with Earth.
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I guess I was so tuned out by the waifu subplot in book 2 that I didn't really pay attention.
Like if you have 900 pages of this reactionary belief is how the unvierse works and is the axiom the entire first book is built on, does it matter that you subvert it in the epilogue?
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