e.g. that there are limited re-education camps, no control of Uyghur birth rates, etc.
You know what OP despite the fact that there is an abundance of information about people who went to the "re-education camps" and came out with training in white collar stuff like actuarial science and real estate, and it is now entirely possible to present you with enough info about the region it will click, I resent you.
Have you heard any E T H N I C U Y G H U R S making these claims you're making? Mostly this stuff comes from an Evangelical German who works for the Victims of Communism Foundation.
Where did you learn about the subject? Youtube?
Falun Gong is actively pushing the Uyghur genocide conspiracy theory too
just great groups of folks all around that you'd love to be associated with
There are one or two Uyghur women (now in the west) who do make claims like this, but imo you'll always get compradores in a large enough population, and their claims have no evidence and are outweighed by the hundreds of testimonies to the contrary.
Well, what did you learn? How has your perspective on Xinjiang changed?
I don't really have a "perspective". I've found some new sources of information though.
Have you heard any E T H N I C U Y G H U R S making these claims you’re making? Mostly this stuff comes from an Evangelical German who works for the Victims of Communism Foundation.
e.g. the books 'We Uyghurs Have No Say' and 'The Perfect Police State', or any number of Uyghur whistleblowers, Uyghur testimonies – they're easy to find
Just to be clear, when you say "no control of Uyghur birth rates," you are referring to Uyghurs being exempted from the one-child policy? I ask because I've never heard any allegation of Uyghur-specific birth rate controls to bother refuting
We do that shit all the time in the US ofc
I still refuse to memory hole the forced hysterectomies performed at our border camps
I was referring to claims like this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713
Okay, that clears that up. So, this article says that the report is from a German "China scholar" named Adrian Zenz. According to his wikipedia article, Zenz is a senior fellow in China studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation (which upholds the 100 million deaths in an unprecedented imperial holocaust line), as well as a lapsed Catholic-turned-born-again Christian who has stated that he feels "led by God" in his research on Chinese Muslims
So in other words, pretty much just a lying ghoul
Some pro-PRC Uyghur twitter accounts:
https://twitter.com/phngkhin
https://twitter.com/TinaBru03884867
https://twitter.com/GulnarNorthwest
YT Channel by a Han guy from Urumqi: https://www.youtube.com/@AlexFromXinjiang/videos
You just have to take my word for it but I ran into a Uyghur on Hellotalk and of course asked her about this. She said nobody in Xinjiang has even heard of this shit and that she finds it strange when Americans ask about it. You could argue that “of course she didn’t talk about the genocide because she’s still trapped in the giant concentration camp that is China” but Chinese people there (including her) regularly make all kinds of complaints about living in China, mostly centered around the work/life imbalance.
I think there are one or two on tiktok but they are kinda apolitical.
Realistically the the region is still under developed so you wouldn't expect to many people there to be so terminally online in the anglosphere to want to spend time in our flame wars.
https://www.qiaocollective.com/xinjiang-responds
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkbOIKUddMBtp0_xEFqn4zey48kkgJq5w
i think the first one is dead links mostly? i cant see the articles.
edit: links work over a VPN, but not off of it. Im in the USA. Nice and suspicious, Mr. ISP!
Nope, the scrolling thing might not be working for you. There's about 500 links
I click them and it says in Chinese "The website you visit has not applied for access to cloud protection. If you need protection, please contact the local salesperson of the website builder."
Which one? Every one has loaded for me.
Do I look like the local salesperson of the website builder to you?
lol then don't answer. cool thing i just found out is the site works on my VPN(through Netherlands) but not off VPN.
Also I initiated the conversation with you. Good, you're learning. I'm one of the least powerful archons. Don't get sloppy.
Lmao how does the fact that you can't load links make the website suspicious?
I can load them find FWIW I don't use a VPN
my ISP is failing me somehow, that is what's suspicious, not the website and content itself.
Can I take it from the other conversation that your concerns are resolved?
yea my ISP wasn't loading the pages without a VPN. so im glad i have a VPN available.
genocide is going pretty poorly if their population only gets larger.
Lots of differences in these situations, too. The fact that someone uses an argument disingenuously doesn't mean you have to write that off even when it's appropriate.
Basically the "you say this because of X, I say it because of Y, we are not the same" meme
It just doesn't make sense as a line of reasoning.
If population growth is the thing, Niger is the least oppressed country in the world.
This isn't as much an own as people who say it think. A population may still be increasing in raw numbers but the rate of increase may be severely dampened.
I'm not saying arguing that there is a genocide in Xinjiang, more against weak rhetoric.
that would just change the definition from genocide to something else. there's evidence of them still teaching their culture in schools, so at worst it's a prison state like america.
Genocide is not necessarily eradication. It is theoretically possible (but not true) that the PRC is doing targeted population control on Uyghurs, which constitutes genocide to the UN, without actually shrinking the net population over time. You can kill or sterilize people and still observe net population growth if the birthrate is high enough.
I don't think it would necessarily by itself. I agree with your second point though.
the aim of a genocide is to destroy/eliminate a group of people. if they are still teaching the culture and their population isn't going down, then it could be mass murder instead of genocide. it does seem like people are saying they have prisons and therefore it's oppression. then they ignore the issues on the border there that America caused.
Take it easy comrade we agree on like basically everything read what I wrote again in a less oppositional frame of mind
The PRC put out like a thousand videos of normal Uyghur civilians in China telling Mike Pompeo to shut the fuck up on YouTube but idk if they're still up
we would not be the people to ask this really, Lemmygrad might be better
