Today I stumbled across a weird corner of Twitter, where a ton of ostensibly conservative Christian women and men were trying to debate incels and RedPill bros using facts and logic, talking about how they shouldn't shame single mothers or promote having extramarital affairs as "high value" men, and how a TikTok trad wife was a larp of a real adoring wife--who may just have a career and have been intimate with someone else before them.

The women were also trying to redefine an "alpha" as a man who could control his sexual urges and stay faithful and kind, and were criticizing guys worshipping that kicker guy for his commencement speech, saying that if they wanted a homemaker wife they needed to be bringing in his kind of salary. Hell, all the worst fears of misogynist chuds, like how a woman won't date you unless you made 6 figures or had a good body, were things these conservative women were unapologetically saying they expected their husband to have, whereas most secular and liberal women I know would never criticize their partner on those grounds.

And then there were the "nice" Christian men who were showing themselves caring for their wives and trying to insist to incels that this was not "beta simping," along with women criticizing pastors who said DV was not grounds for divorce. All the while incel chuds, for as much as we know they hate feminists, were whining that conservative women were actually the "most disobedient" and likely trying to hide their past promiscuity behind their newfound conservativism. Hell they were even arguing to Mike Cernovich of all people that all women who partied in college were irredeemable.

Not to say these anti-redpill women were totally woke or whatever, they were usually transphobic, pro-Israel, anti-abortion, and claiming incel/redpill stuff was "just as bad as feminism," but my takeaways are:

  1. This redpill/incel/trad shit is tearing the conservative Christian community apart and giving their men brainworms too, the educated and family oriented women of the community are actually unhappy with this trend and the potential partners it's yielding, and unhappy with the female incel-pandering grifters facilitating their marginalization. That is not to mention the precipitous decline of conservative male church attendance.

  2. The ideal man as described by a lot of conservative women is actually the "beta soy lib" archetype who isn't dogmatic about gender roles and is unafraid to show kindness, provided he knows how to shoot a gun/do yardwork. A left/lib female-attracted person who made videos unapologetically espousing their belief in respect and equality in partnerships, in their own terms, might draw as many conservative women fans as they do trad/incel men enemies. A lot of the talking points we on the left find trite and self-evident would be eye opening in some places if they were just articulated again.

  3. These anti-misogyny conservative women are fighting a losing battle and they don't admit it to themselves yet, because they keep quoting scripture to justify their entitlement to male fidelity and gentleness, while the scripture was still designed by men to let married men get away with everything from DV to child SA.

  4. These conservative Christian women go at this new wave of misogyny harder than the left does, because the left oftentimes subconsciously steer away from these online spaces for fear of being ratioed and triggered and these women don't have that fear because they are still kind of, psychologically speaking, fighting with their ingroup. It's similar to how the current libertarian presidential candidate was the only guy who appeared on right wing podcasts to unapologetically defend drag queen story hour and trans-friendly bathrooms.

Thoughts? (Also, feel free to repost this anywhere if you like.)

  • Sodium_nitride@lemmygrad.ml
    ·
    6 months ago

    Seems tough being a Conservative Christian woman. Although to be fair, the incel movement is complete cancer that any "real traditionalist" would find abhorrent. It is not surprising to me at all. I grew up in a "traditional" global south family, the kind where half of my family members refuse to eat onion or garlic and consider it sinful and where 3-4 generations often live together. And if I acted or spoke even 10% as "removedly" as these incel/manosphere types do, I would have been kicked out immediately.

    Incels and red pillers basically come into the movement because they want nothing more than pure material benefit (sex + free labour from women). Conservative culture is often based on the same goal of ultimately getting material benefits on women's expense, but it is always dressed up in traditions and rituals and moralising. The traditional family members I was talking about aren't really the "good guys" when it came to women, but I suppose that at least the drive for respectability made them act much better than incels ever will.

    Unfortunately, I don't think conservatives can ever fight against the incel movement in a way that is actually effective. The incels genuinely believe in all of the Conservative values, they just so happen to not give a shit about the optics of it.

    As for Conservative women, they are in the tough spot that as women, they don't actually want the same things as the incels do (at least not when applied to them specifically). However the incel ideology is nothing more than the Conservative ideology but applied with less shame. So you end up with this situation.