I did not, will not ever advocate for Biden, because he is pro-genocide of Palestine. I don't think "harm reduction" or "lesser of two evils" is the solution.
Please do not make wildly tangential assumptions, it's not beneficial to dialogue. Treat the conversation you have with me as a conversation with me, and not an amalgamation of conversations you've had with other people.
You transgressed orthodoxy by suggesting that democrats could be appreciably different from republicans in any way and now will be treated as hostile. You're right, for what it is worth.
I'm not the person you're responding to, but I would never advocate for Biden, but I would also never support advocate for Trump. He's clearly the worse option for a myriad of other reasons.
I really do understand why a Palestinian American would not vote for Biden right now though and would never ask them to.
Is it possible for everyone to agree that criticizing specifically Democrats or Clinton or Biden is not a support of Trump, and criticizing specifically Trump is not a support of Biden.
Yeah and I think we're both falling on the other side of these material conditions. I believe the material conditions of putting Trump in power is worse than having Biden.
Whatbare thos material conditions then? Try explaining how supporting a genocide and the current crackdown on peaceful protests is the har reduction choice, I'll be over there not listening to you
I'll respond to the other person's comment with more examples when I find time since you said you won't listen to me anyway.
But I do have one question: do you think those two things would be better or worse under Trump? That answer is why it's harm reduction. Do you not remember the Muslim ban or bringing in federal agents to crack down on George Floyd protests?
Wages are down
Cost of living, including,rent,groceries,housing, is up
One million+ Americans are dead from COVID, and millions more are suffering from continued Infections and long COVID.
Corporate Greed has made most routine restaurant visits worse. Most places are understaffed, leading to waiting longer for lower quality food at higher prices.
Many of my favorite chain stores are closing completely. Great economy ass!
Biden broke a major strike
Infrastructure like major bridges are falling apart because is an idiot that isn't qualified for the job he was gifted for dropping out of 2020.
Immigrants continue to be deported in record numbers.
Kids are still in cages.
Every summer is the hottest in history, while this administration puts tariffs on cheap electric vehicles and solar panels that could help.
LGBT, especially T, material conditions are horrific in many places, and the Dems aren't doing anything to fix that.
Women in many states lost their right to choose, and the Dems aren't doing anything to materially fix that.
I really do understand why a Palestinian American would not vote for Biden
then have some solidarity with Palestinians and stop the ridiculous “harm reduction” rhetoric. nobody here is advocating for trump. those comments are removed and the users don’t last long on here since our admins are great and actually ban reactionaries.
if you want to actually delineate these “material conditions” you claim will be worse under trump compared to biden please share them
Okay, I will later when I have time. Probably days from now if not more than a week. One short thing I would argue is many things are generally worse with every passing year because (1) there has been a rightward trend in the Overton window, (2) the conservatives have been on a long, calculated campaign to gain political supremacy by diminishing voting rights, hacking away at federal power, and increasing the role of capital in political decision-making, primarily through the capture of the Judiciary (and its ideology).
Biden sucks and is pathetic in his response to RvW being overturned, for example. But it doesn't matter if you had Chomsky himself as president, nothing could have been done to change that decision.
I just don't think the solution is to then shift the Overton window even more right than where it is by voting for Trump, potentially making a lot of these issues (particularly in regards to voting rights), harder to shift left.
a president who opposed the rightward shift would have pushed court stacking and added justices until RvW was safe. or pushed a bill codifying abortion rights. dems had a voting majority in both houses and any dem who didnt vote for it would be giving up their reelection chance. ofc the rotating villain would vote against it and just take a high paying private sector job when their term ends.
the role of dems is to slow or stop leftward momentum by doing nothing so that the republicans can take over and move the country rightward. the overton window means nothing when regular citizens have no say in politics and can only vote for the mean fascist or the nice fascist. the overton window is meaningful if it is far left enough to push ppl into revolutionary action.
and, once again, stop strawmanning, nobody here is advocating for voting for trump. also, trump in office does not push the overton window right. it empowers the most rabid americans and would increase violence against the left, but that is going to happen under biden anyways with the right leaning state and municipal governments
I agree and think Democrats are tepid, pathetic excuses for a left wing that engage in continued imperialism and corporate control. I completely agree that they are letting us slip further into fascism and their responses are shit. I'm just saying that to make it happen quicker by (1) voting for Trump or (2) not voting for Biden seems misguided, generally. As much as I wish someone else would be on the ticket.
My intent is not to straw-man. I assumed folks here were advocating voting for Trump, because to me that seems like the only other option on a ticket that only gives you a binary choice. I'm sorry if that's not the case and I'm missing something.
And in that case, my question is then: what are people here advocating for? Not voting? Voting for a lefty as a write-in? Starting armed insurrection? Somewhere in between?
I don't see any reason why Clinton would be forced to pick the exact same scotus judges.
I'm not a liberal just because I might make you uncomfortable by challenging your established ways of thinking.
No you're a liberal because you are twisting yourself in a pretzel to advocate for Biden as "harm reduction"
Please fuck off.
I did not, will not ever advocate for Biden, because he is pro-genocide of Palestine. I don't think "harm reduction" or "lesser of two evils" is the solution.
Please do not make wildly tangential assumptions, it's not beneficial to dialogue. Treat the conversation you have with me as a conversation with me, and not an amalgamation of conversations you've had with other people.
You transgressed orthodoxy by suggesting that democrats could be appreciably different from republicans in any way and now will be treated as hostile. You're right, for what it is worth.
I'm not the person you're responding to, but I would never advocate for Biden, but I would also never
supportadvocate for Trump. He's clearly the worse option for a myriad of other reasons.I really do understand why a Palestinian American would not vote for Biden right now though and would never ask them to.
Nobody here is talking about supporting Trump we are talking about material conditions. You're way out of your depth here please read a book.
Is it possible for everyone to agree that criticizing specifically Democrats or Clinton or Biden is not a support of Trump, and criticizing specifically Trump is not a support of Biden.
Yeah and I think we're both falling on the other side of these material conditions. I believe the material conditions of putting Trump in power is worse than having Biden.
Whatbare thos material conditions then? Try explaining how supporting a genocide and the current crackdown on peaceful protests is the har reduction choice, I'll be over there not listening to you
I'll respond to the other person's comment with more examples when I find time since you said you won't listen to me anyway.
But I do have one question: do you think those two things would be better or worse under Trump? That answer is why it's harm reduction. Do you not remember the Muslim ban or bringing in federal agents to crack down on George Floyd protests?
Which material conditions are better under Biden?
Wages are down Cost of living, including,rent,groceries,housing, is up
One million+ Americans are dead from COVID, and millions more are suffering from continued Infections and long COVID.
Corporate Greed has made most routine restaurant visits worse. Most places are understaffed, leading to waiting longer for lower quality food at higher prices.
Many of my favorite chain stores are closing completely. Great economy ass!
Biden broke a major strike
Infrastructure like major bridges are falling apart because
is an idiot that isn't qualified for the job he was gifted for dropping out of 2020.
Immigrants continue to be deported in record numbers.
Kids are still in cages.
Every summer is the hottest in history, while this administration puts tariffs on cheap electric vehicles and solar panels that could help.
LGBT, especially T, material conditions are horrific in many places, and the Dems aren't doing anything to fix that.
Women in many states lost their right to choose, and the Dems aren't doing anything to materially fix that.
then have some solidarity with Palestinians and stop the ridiculous “harm reduction” rhetoric. nobody here is advocating for trump. those comments are removed and the users don’t last long on here since our admins are great and actually ban reactionaries.
if you want to actually delineate these “material conditions” you claim will be worse under trump compared to biden please share them
Okay, I will later when I have time. Probably days from now if not more than a week. One short thing I would argue is many things are generally worse with every passing year because (1) there has been a rightward trend in the Overton window, (2) the conservatives have been on a long, calculated campaign to gain political supremacy by diminishing voting rights, hacking away at federal power, and increasing the role of capital in political decision-making, primarily through the capture of the Judiciary (and its ideology).
Biden sucks and is pathetic in his response to RvW being overturned, for example. But it doesn't matter if you had Chomsky himself as president, nothing could have been done to change that decision.
I just don't think the solution is to then shift the Overton window even more right than where it is by voting for Trump, potentially making a lot of these issues (particularly in regards to voting rights), harder to shift left.
a president who opposed the rightward shift would have pushed court stacking and added justices until RvW was safe. or pushed a bill codifying abortion rights. dems had a voting majority in both houses and any dem who didnt vote for it would be giving up their reelection chance. ofc the rotating villain would vote against it and just take a high paying private sector job when their term ends.
the role of dems is to slow or stop leftward momentum by doing nothing so that the republicans can take over and move the country rightward. the overton window means nothing when regular citizens have no say in politics and can only vote for the mean fascist or the nice fascist. the overton window is meaningful if it is far left enough to push ppl into revolutionary action.
and, once again, stop strawmanning, nobody here is advocating for voting for trump. also, trump in office does not push the overton window right. it empowers the most rabid americans and would increase violence against the left, but that is going to happen under biden anyways with the right leaning state and municipal governments
I agree and think Democrats are tepid, pathetic excuses for a left wing that engage in continued imperialism and corporate control. I completely agree that they are letting us slip further into fascism and their responses are shit. I'm just saying that to make it happen quicker by (1) voting for Trump or (2) not voting for Biden seems misguided, generally. As much as I wish someone else would be on the ticket.
My intent is not to straw-man. I assumed folks here were advocating voting for Trump, because to me that seems like the only other option on a ticket that only gives you a binary choice. I'm sorry if that's not the case and I'm missing something.
And in that case, my question is then: what are people here advocating for? Not voting? Voting for a lefty as a write-in? Starting armed insurrection? Somewhere in between?