No, and I resent the aggressive reductionism. If you aren't interested in engaging with my argument, don't.
There is no emotionally honest depiction of fascism which will not appeal to a fascist - that is what makes them a fascist. They like the things we hate.
The benefits being presented are "it makes leftists feel good".
The negatives being presented are "when this content is successful it clearly functions to grow fascist numbers".
There is no emotionally honest depiction of fascism which will not appeal to a fascist - that is what makes them a fascist. They like the things we hate.
Satire like Warhammer 40k and Starship Troopers is NOT an emotionally honest depiction of fascism. It presents the enemy as monsters. It justifies the foundational root of fascism being that there are monsters that must be destroyed.
An emotionally honest depiction of fascism would have the enemies fascism seeks to destroy be actually marginalised people that are the weakest in society being actively destroyed and brutalised. This of course would not be very fun to watch or play though would it? And thus would be less successful, both with leftists and with the wider audience, it would in fact stop being satirical altogether if you did this. Satire inherently has emotional dishonesty embedded in it for the sake of making it fun entertainment and audience reach.
The benefits go beyond making leftists feel good, it makes them feel like part of a larger group within society that can and should effect change. It gives them a structure around which to understand what they oppose and why. It literally grows the number of active leftists in exactly the same way as it grows the number of fascists - by giving them a nucleus around which to form a coherent ideology distinct from the background radiation of disaffected liberalism. The difference is that the fascist gets this anyway, from the news, from every blockbuster film, from every war game.
I would also argue that there is emotional honesty there, because fascism sees itself as fighting monsters, part of inoculating against fascism is understanding that no perceived enemy justifies it's existence. However I do agree that it is a serious weakness of both 40k and Starship Troopers that this idea, that fascism creates it's monsters, is never explored. If it was I think it would be harder, but still not impossible, to co-opt them. I'm not arguing that these pieces of media cannot be criticized though, I am arguing that satire should not be declared tainted and abandoned to the right. It's is a tool in the belt of leftist artists and is no more vulnerable to co-opting than any other media dealing with the subject of fascism.
Fascists are also quite capable of taking media that explicitly shows them attacking humanized, marginalized, non-threatening people and understanding it as aspirational.
I am arguing that satire should not be declared tainted and abandoned to the right
I can't think of any popular right wing satire of the left. The closest thing I can come up with is Monty Python's occasional jab leftwards with extremely accurate criticisms that leftists would make themselves. That's not to say that right wing comedy doesn't exist. But that's not the same as satire is it?
Satire is by nature less compatible with the right, but off the top of my head I'd say South Park and Team America are popular right wing satire. Idiocracy too. I'd even say modern WH40K lore contains explicitly right wing satire, the Tau for example. Satire is extremely popular with liberals as well, and liberals can certainly be considered "right-wing".
Monty Python are leftists criticizing the left. That's why their criticisms are spot-on. The whole "People's Front of Judea" vs. "Judean People's Front" was formed from their experiences in orgs in the 60s and 70s.
No, and I resent the aggressive reductionism. If you aren't interested in engaging with my argument, don't.
There is no emotionally honest depiction of fascism which will not appeal to a fascist - that is what makes them a fascist. They like the things we hate.
The benefits being presented are "it makes leftists feel good".
The negatives being presented are "when this content is successful it clearly functions to grow fascist numbers".
Satire like Warhammer 40k and Starship Troopers is NOT an emotionally honest depiction of fascism. It presents the enemy as monsters. It justifies the foundational root of fascism being that there are monsters that must be destroyed.
An emotionally honest depiction of fascism would have the enemies fascism seeks to destroy be actually marginalised people that are the weakest in society being actively destroyed and brutalised. This of course would not be very fun to watch or play though would it? And thus would be less successful, both with leftists and with the wider audience, it would in fact stop being satirical altogether if you did this. Satire inherently has emotional dishonesty embedded in it for the sake of making it fun entertainment and audience reach.
The benefits go beyond making leftists feel good, it makes them feel like part of a larger group within society that can and should effect change. It gives them a structure around which to understand what they oppose and why. It literally grows the number of active leftists in exactly the same way as it grows the number of fascists - by giving them a nucleus around which to form a coherent ideology distinct from the background radiation of disaffected liberalism. The difference is that the fascist gets this anyway, from the news, from every blockbuster film, from every war game.
I would also argue that there is emotional honesty there, because fascism sees itself as fighting monsters, part of inoculating against fascism is understanding that no perceived enemy justifies it's existence. However I do agree that it is a serious weakness of both 40k and Starship Troopers that this idea, that fascism creates it's monsters, is never explored. If it was I think it would be harder, but still not impossible, to co-opt them. I'm not arguing that these pieces of media cannot be criticized though, I am arguing that satire should not be declared tainted and abandoned to the right. It's is a tool in the belt of leftist artists and is no more vulnerable to co-opting than any other media dealing with the subject of fascism.
Fascists are also quite capable of taking media that explicitly shows them attacking humanized, marginalized, non-threatening people and understanding it as aspirational.
I can't think of any popular right wing satire of the left. The closest thing I can come up with is Monty Python's occasional jab leftwards with extremely accurate criticisms that leftists would make themselves. That's not to say that right wing comedy doesn't exist. But that's not the same as satire is it?
Satire is by nature less compatible with the right, but off the top of my head I'd say South Park and Team America are popular right wing satire. Idiocracy too. I'd even say modern WH40K lore contains explicitly right wing satire, the Tau for example. Satire is extremely popular with liberals as well, and liberals can certainly be considered "right-wing".
Monty Python are leftists criticizing the left. That's why their criticisms are spot-on. The whole "People's Front of Judea" vs. "Judean People's Front" was formed from their experiences in orgs in the 60s and 70s.
I hate to say it but only Graham Chapman had credentials as a potential leftist "armchair socialist" some of the other members called him. The rest of them were hardcore liberals. Cleese was a Liberal Democrat member and did many ads for them at their peak.