hit the character limit

make sure to read sources before sharing them.

DO NOT COPY-PASTE THIS ON LEMMY LOL, THIS IS A BRAINSTORM FOR OUR USE

We should pool our sources and evidence in this thread so that people with approved lemmy accounts can start spreading it there.

Feel free to contribute lol, it's a lot of work for me to do on my own and I might miss stuff or make mistakes, although I'm gonna keep going help or no

I'll grab links in a second (and there are some good articles I'd like to find that gather lots of evidence in one place), but here's some stuff off the top of my head:

I don't really have much off the top of my head for Uighur genocide stuff

I'll stick articles down here, some of which aggregate lots of evidence in one place

How psy-ops warriors fooled me about Tiananmen Square: a warning ...edgy-sounding title though

1989: Tiananmen Square ‘massacre’ was a myth

How Much Longer Do We Need to Propagate Lies About Tiananmen Square?

Tiananmen — The Big Lie

Tiananmen: The Massacre that Wasn’t

1989 Tiananmen Square "Student Massacre" was a hoax

The Truth Behind the Myth of the 'Tiananmen Square Massacre' - Opinion Piece By Dr. Dennis Etler

Notes for 30th Anniversary of TianAnMen Incident, courtesy of /u/GarbageShoot

Tiananmen Square Massacre – Facts, Fiction and Propaganda Lots of good images and western media quotes, but the site hosts some goofy articles so be careful citing it

Let’s talk about Tiananmen Square, 1989: My hearsay is better than your hearsay

Birth of a massacre myth, courtesy of /u/GarbageShoot

CBS news: There was no "Tiananmen Square Massacre", courtesy of /u/robinn

a NYT questioning the massacre, courtesy of /u/robinn and here's a pastebin rip

dessalines, a Lemmy dev, has a good socialism FAQ, including sections on Tiananmen, courtesy of /u/PorkrollPosadist

[link] [link] these two /r/ChangeMyView comments on China are great, courtesy of /u/geikei

[link] [link] [link] Some old hexbear threads, courtesy of /u/Finger

not China, but /u/robinn also made a carrd on the DPRK and linked a good twitter thread by ProleWiki

Comments in this thread to check out. I'll try to also add their info up here.

/u/robinn: https://hexbear.net/post/271448/comment/3513792

/u/Awoo suggests keeping things short and digestible instead of posting long effortposts, since libs will just count on people not reading the whole thing and they will point at it and say "See? They deny the Uighur genocide" or "See, they deny Tiananmen" https://hexbear.net/post/271448/comment/3514089

/u/GnastyGnuts has some great links but I hit char limit https://hexbear.net/post/271448/comment/3514972

/u/Krause has more great links https://hexbear.net/comment/3529874

Lemmy posts and comments from us

by /u/GarbageShoot: https://lemmy.ml/comment/476526

  • PZK [he/him]
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    The main issue I find with trying to argue on this front is that it is a fight that isn't needed.

    Anyone who is usually arguing this, is usually is coming from some country that has literally no moral high-horse to speak on these issues. Especially if they are American. The genocide of Native Americans, enslavement of Black people, or even contemporary imperialism.

    Why are they not up in arms about the largest imprisoned population in the world? Why don't they take issue with the treatment of homeless people? Why don't they take issue with the US ongoing support of coups and invasions of other countries?

    They turn a blind eye to these issues because it isn't about the issues at all. The reason they bring up the Tianamen square massacre and the Uighur genocide is because they want to attack communism. You only need to point this out to them when they get upset and try to dismiss other issues as "whataboutism". Strip their intent down to its naked truth and expose their virtue signaling with the overwhelming amount of active atrocities they don't seem to care about.

    Being succinct and to the point about why they actually care about arguing these things, because I fucking promise you they don't give a shit about those people. They want communism to fail. Hell, just troll them and talk about the My Lai Massacre or Kent State.

    The point I make using this avenue of argument is that if you try to argue "what actually happened" its just going to be your facts vs theirs. They are the ones creating a moral argument, so show them that even they don't believe what they are preaching.

    • iie [they/them, he/him]
      hexagon
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I don't think libs harping on China are a homogeneous group. I think some genuinely believe and are disturbed by the Tiananmen and Uighur narratives. Before I radicalized I definitely believed Tiananmen and was upset about it, and I was otherwise already pretty sympathetic to socialism.

      • PZK [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        I just say this because from my experience everyone that argues the narratives is just some dumb redditor. They all say the same shit and pretend to care in order to try to stifle friendly attitudes towards China. I have found them to be quite homogeneous, but that is just me.

        • iie [they/them, he/him]
          hexagon
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          I've definitely run into some like that, but if I sent this thread to lib me years ago I think it would have gotten through to me

          *in fact I think I found out DPRK defector testimonies were bullshit when I was still a lib and I accepted that, and it helped open me to further radicalization

          • PZK [he/him]
            ·
            1 year ago

            Fair enough. I just get annoyed when liberals pretend to care about people. All the best.:stalin-approval:

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        You have a good point and I'm glad you pushed back against an overly-totalizing account, but it must be said that people who argue the most passionately are the ones immersed in motivated reasoning. People uncomfortable with the topic are way more likely to just avoid it.