i hate how it's always framed like the Soviets caused the death and suffering after it "collapsed", like it doesn't even question the role of mass-liberalization of post-soviet economies and Western-endorsed "shock therapy"
Yeah, I always thought it was a pretty direct example of what capitalism does to to countries, but then again people are still blaming the soviet union for the effects of capitalism 30 fucking years later. Shit's frustrating
Right? Also, if excess mortality *after * the fall of socialism / liberal revolutions in post-soviet states is the fault of socialists, then surely the excess mortality linked to the socialist revolution should be attributed to the capitalists who predated socialism
The neoliberal rationalization at the time - and still used to this day - is that the socialist economy was so inefficient that all that pain and suffering was necessary in order to make the economy more productive in the long term. Which is a brilliant excuse (in an evil way) because it’s all unprovable and ideology driven.
My response to that is, just look at where the economy of the USSR was in 1991 and imagine they never break up and adopt neoliberal capitalism. Even if you assume anemic growth… hard to see how the economy still wouldn’t have been better under communism. And then you’d also avoid all that needless suffering.
Of course liberals just blame “corruption” on why the capitalist turn hasn’t worked out so well for the former USSR. It’s not true but it helps them not think about it any further.
Reminds me of the opposite effect with the dissolution of the USSR. Right after '91 life expectancy took a nose dive that took years to recover
i hate how it's always framed like the Soviets caused the death and suffering after it "collapsed", like it doesn't even question the role of mass-liberalization of post-soviet economies and Western-endorsed "shock therapy"
:soviet-huff:
Yeah, I always thought it was a pretty direct example of what capitalism does to to countries, but then again people are still blaming the soviet union for the effects of capitalism 30 fucking years later. Shit's frustrating
Right? Also, if excess mortality *after * the fall of socialism / liberal revolutions in post-soviet states is the fault of socialists, then surely the excess mortality linked to the socialist revolution should be attributed to the capitalists who predated socialism
:debate-me-debate-me:
Or feudalists, since Russia and China were at best a mix but China especially was mainly feudal
The neoliberal rationalization at the time - and still used to this day - is that the socialist economy was so inefficient that all that pain and suffering was necessary in order to make the economy more productive in the long term. Which is a brilliant excuse (in an evil way) because it’s all unprovable and ideology driven.
My response to that is, just look at where the economy of the USSR was in 1991 and imagine they never break up and adopt neoliberal capitalism. Even if you assume anemic growth… hard to see how the economy still wouldn’t have been better under communism. And then you’d also avoid all that needless suffering.
Of course liberals just blame “corruption” on why the capitalist turn hasn’t worked out so well for the former USSR. It’s not true but it helps them not think about it any further.
Damn it's like communists care about the people or something. Such evil should not be allowed to exist.
Caring about people so they can USE THEM. Its all an insidious trick to tyrannize each of the good people of China for 30 years longer.