Don't be around sexist people, EZ

Also, their feelings: pronouns

  • FourteenEyes [he/him]
    ·
    edit-2
    21 days ago

    Women can in fact be actors that reinforce toxic masculinity, since they too live under patriarchy, which is what this is really referencing as the problem. Don't take it from me, ask Bell Hooks.

    EDIT: Not to say that the people wjo made or share it are aware of that, more of a heartbreaking situation

    • SorosFootSoldier [he/him, they/them]
      ·
      21 days ago

      Yeah the woman with pink hair is probably going to be more receptive of you breaking down and telling her your problems versus the tradwife who wants you to man up and go die in the mine.

      • LaughingLion [any, any]
        ·
        20 days ago

        I don't know, maybe? I'm going to be real here, I think there are some real gendered assumptions in society that go unchecked by the left. Two being that women are better communicators than men and that women are more emotionally available than men. I just don't think either is true. I think both men and women can be equally as good or bad at either. Some of the most emotionally stunted people I have known in my life were women (to be clear I've known some infantile men, too) and some of the best communicators I've known were men. But overall I feel that men and women are on average poor communicators in general.

        That said, I've never been hurt by a man for being emotionally vulnerable. Like, maybe a little jabbing but never had a guy throw something like that in my face like a woman has. And sure, men have done this to women plenty especially in relationships. Also, I've found that this is not really swayed by political ideology one way or another.

        There is a big community, especially in churches, around "brotherhood" and men being very vulnerable with each other in a way I've never seen outside of that even in leftist spaces just as an example. And those spaces are generally occupied by pretty conservative guys. Likewise, I've seen very left-leaning women discuss how their man confessed they couldn't continue on a lucrative career path or weren't able to be their rock while they both went through some serious loss and lose attraction and respect for him but I've only seen a man feel the same about their girlfriend or spouse once in regards to income. It seems to me that for some women "emotional availability" really means "you must share my emotional labor but I shouldn't be required to share yours" and that's just wrong. For some women "we are equal in our income" still means "I'll never support a man financially" even though I don't know a single man who feels this way about his partner.

        • EmoThugInMyPhase [he/him]
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          edit-2
          20 days ago

          I don’t think it’s “the left” that has this assumption about women. Researchers find that women generally have wider and higher quality support networks. I’m sure we all know the causes, but regardless, I imagine that support network allows one to develop better communication skills. But “better communication skills” could mean a variety of things. It’s pretty common to hear women talk about feigning sympathy and understanding to avoid a compromise to their safety if they find the man suspect. I don’t think this is “wrong” or whatever - this is just the natural conclusion of a patriarchy that reduces emotional intelligence as “feminine” while at the same time saying you’re entitled to everything as a man, which means emotional support that was already demonized as feminine.

          But I do think left-leaning people tend to assume, or at least espouse, that women are generally saints and will be interested and respectful to you as long as you’re ”not gross” because “their standards and expectations are very low” when finding a respectable man. Not sure how that’s encouraging for either party lol

          • LaughingLion [any, any]
            ·
            20 days ago

            Is this not a leftist space? People in this space makes these assumptions. Women in this space. But more so I see leftist content creators even well known feminists discuss this and their opinion is no better than a tradwife content creator. It really is an assumption.

            But these issues even persist into relationships among leftist couples; well beyond the public acquaintance or courting stages. The lack of communication skills transcends the reasons you give. Like I said, I feel both men and women are pretty poor with communication in general. I don't really think one is worse than the other. I think on the emotional availability though, men are getting a lot of flak when really they are doing much better than is commonly said.

        • Awoo [she/her]
          ·
          20 days ago

          Two being that women are better communicators than men and that women are more emotionally available than men. I just don't think either is true.

          Women make themselves emotionally unavailable as a defence mechanism to people they think are hitting on them that they're not interested in because showing even the slightest bit of emotional availability to some men creates invites guys that have crippling levels of attachment issues that you see all over the internet talking about how some b*tch led them on and then friend-zoned them.

          With people that are actually trusted and don't give off the vibe that they're also trying to build a relationship that wall comes down.

          Almost every single incel has done this to at least one girl or woman at least once, usually in their teens through early twenties.

          • LaughingLion [any, any]
            ·
            20 days ago

            I understand that. Men and women both make themselves emotionally unavailable as defense mechanisms for both similar and different reasons. Only men are ever accused of being emotionally unavailable as a systemic problem even though men's reasons are just as valid as women's.

            Part of the issue here is that when this is pointed out women get super defensive about it. I've seen this conversation go down before. Men's reasons for not being emotionally available are invalid and women's are valid. If a man can't be emotionally available then that's a problem with men. If a woman can't be emotionally available then that's a problem with men. In reality a lot of men's emotional unavailability is due to their poor experiences with it with women. That includes the exact scenario you present here. Men also experience that with femcel types; it is not uniquely gendered and the rise in that community over the years really underlines that.

            But either way I'm not talking about this in a general sense but more in a relationship sense where emotional availability and communication are so much more important. This is where the conversation about it really comes into full effect. So that's not really applicable here for men or women. The men and women in this situation have moved past that stage.

            Last time I had this conversation I was told that men's hang-ups about emotional availability and being able to be emotionally vulnerable was something men had to work on (which is true). If they had traumas regarding that then take it up with a therapist, it's not women's job to do that emotional labor. I think this is were the problem lies. Emotional vulnerability and availability is a request of the other party to do emotional labor with you. To say women don't want to do it for men is to say that they really don't want men to fully be emotionally available. They want men to be emotional sponges for them. They want men to do emotional labor for them and never the other way around and that is something that many men eventually learn the hard way.

            Sure, they can get therapy and should if they have deep traumas. Absolutely. However, when being dismissed they go to therapy and they let the professional do that emotional labor with them. Then they come home to a partner and they don't need the partner to do that anymore. They were emotionally available and worked through that with the therapist. Now their partner is asking why they never open up to them. Gee, I wonder. Should you have to work through your emotional traumas twice? Once to the necessary work to resolve them and a second time as a performance for a partner who has expressed they'd rather not be bothered to really share in your experiences? All while making themselves emotionally available to that labor for their partners in addition? That's a lot of emotional labor expected of men and so many men out there are doing it.

            I speak from first and second hand experience here.

    • ElGosso [he/him]
      ·
      21 days ago

      Right? Like yeah these guys probably suck but that doesn't change the fact that patriarchal systems are designed to turn men into violent CHUDs and that they're enforced by societal norms, not just the behavior of other men.

    • EmoThugInMyPhase [he/him]
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      edit-2
      20 days ago

      I find it odd that “being intimidated by powerful women”, I.e. women with education, wealth, capital, political power, connections, status, etc., is a common criticism of men. Not from leftists usually, but liberal feminists. More often than not, occupations that provide those things take up a lot of time naturally, but more commonly (in my experience), they have 0 interest in anybody who is substantially beneath their status. Nothing wrong with having standards, but the girlboss archetype is essentially this. Perhaps it’s overcompensation for excelling in male dominated leagues. Regardless, the coupling of rich and powerful ghouls produce more ghouls that continue to perpetuate capitalism and furthers damages both men and women who don’t reach that level.

      The exception being the princess of Japan