"the real degree of the exploitation (you must allow me this French word) of labour."

  • Marx, Value, Price, and Profit.

What's wrong with that, lmao, was Engels going to censor that?

  • PissWarlock [comrade/them]
    ·
    1 year ago

    This is the best answer I could get out of the chatgpt:

    "Exploitation" (English/French):

    Connotation of severity: The term "exploitation" in English and French carries a connotation of a severe and unjust treatment of individuals. It suggests an oppressive and unfair relationship, where one party benefits at the expense of another. Historical associations: The term "exploitation" was widely used within French socialist discourse during Marx's time. It had become associated with the analysis of capitalism and the relationship between capitalists and workers, as propagated by influential French socialist thinkers.

    "Ausbeutung" (German):

    Connotation of extraction: "Ausbeutung" in German is derived from the verb "ausbeuten," which conveys the idea of extracting or utilizing resources. It emphasizes the act of taking advantage of something or someone for one's own gain. Broader range of applications: While "Ausbeutung" can be used to describe the exploitation of labor under capitalism, it is not exclusively tied to the economic context. The term can also be used more broadly to describe the exploitation or utilization of resources in different contexts, such as natural resources or opportunities.

    In essence, the "slightly different connotations" between "exploitation" and "Ausbeutung" can be summarized as follows: "exploitation" in English and French carries a stronger connotation of severity and injustice specifically within the economic and social context of capitalism, while "Ausbeutung" in German has a broader range of applications and emphasizes the extraction or utilization of resources more generally.

    By using the term "exploitation," Marx may have felt it better captured the specific nature of capitalist exploitation and the systemic injustice inherent in the relationship between capitalists and workers. It aligned with the established terminology within French socialist discourse and conveyed the severity of the exploitation more effectively to a broader international audience.

    • TerminalEncounter [she/her]
      ·
      1 year ago

      It's still a fuckin problem today, lol. People get so worked up about semantics re: exploitation when he meant ruling class exploits labour HOW A FARMER EXPLOITS LAND. So people in real life will say "well, I don't feel exploited my boss gives me a fair wage" cause they think exploitation == feels as bad and embodied as chattle slavery. And I guess just regular lib late capitalist brain worms too.

      • Beaver [he/him]
        ·
        1 year ago

        That is exactly the problem as I understand it, that "exploitation" is first understood as a negative description of an unjust situation, and secondarily as benefitting from the transfer of resources. While Marx does indeed believe that there is some injustice inherent in this situation, he is first and foremost trying to scientifically describe an economic process. And that's been kind of an effective semantic attack used against Marxist theory: that it is just an emotional diatribe against perceived oppression, and glossing over the actual economics of what he's describing.

      • PissWarlock [comrade/them]
        ·
        1 year ago

        I agree with you, but I’m a bit confused about what you mean?

        Are you talking about language/context barriers when it comes to the terms we use to discuss theoretical concepts?

        Vaguely related: to the best of my knowledge there is no word on English for exploitation that is not a loan word.

        • TerminalEncounter [she/her]
          ·
          1 year ago

          No, there isn't a better English word which is why Marx used it. I wish we had one that was a little more neutral for the general audience, but that's what we got.

          Yeah, I meant in educating or "debating" people in real life. Telling people how they, as workers, are exploited by bosses is usually a tough sell unless they're in the precariat or in the immigrant agricultural sector (cause then they can really feel it on a fundamental level). It can be hard to explain the theory because you have to, like, un-teach people some of their capitalist propoganda education especially on the semantics of words used by Marx.

          • Teapot [he/him]
            ·
            1 year ago

            It seems like Marx used the French word because it has a harsher tone than the equivalent German word

          • PissWarlock [comrade/them]
            ·
            1 year ago

            I know what you mean now. The programming is legitimately scary in effect.

            I brought up the Amazon unionization drive at a job once and a dude who literally got stiffed for an entire season of work on a shrimp boat started spouting anti union stuff.