https://twitter.com/MarioEmblem_2/status/1676009845235896320

  • culpritus [any]
    ·
    2 years ago

    Nothing can prove qualia.

    "the philosopher John Locke recognized that alternatives are possible, and described one such hypothetical case with the "inverted spectrum" thought experiment. For example, someone with an inverted spectrum might experience green while seeing 'red' (700 nm) light, and experience red while seeing 'green' (530 nm) light. This inversion has never been demonstrated in experiment.

      • culpritus [any]
        ·
        2 years ago

        If you can prove it, it isn't qualia, right?

        • NormalHumanLikeYou [undecided]
          ·
          2 years ago

          Qualia are not physical measurements of a physical phenomena, it is how it subjectively 'feels' to experience the perception (measurement) of a phenomena. John Locke's inverted spectrum thought experiment is not necessarily intended to be a falsifiable claim about a real phenomena, but a simplified explanation of an example in differences between qualia between people. Its not a particularly good example, but he was not necessarily trying to claim that that specific case literally happened or will happen (as far as i know). A better example would be the difference between experiencing a view of something red, and the mathematically modelled and quantified wavelength of the light in nanometers. the mathematical model and empirical data does not tell you anything about what it feels like to see the red color, it only tells you what its quantifiable characteristics are, modelled in the form of numbers and symbols. the data alone cannot tell you anything qualitative, you have to at least ask other subjects like yourself to confirm such things. I do think it is reasonable that humans generally see colors similarly, for regardless of your opinion on the problem of consciousness, our experiences are highly correlated to various quantifiable physical phenomena in our bodies. the problem is that there has yet to be established a causal link between physical phenomena and subjective experience.

          • culpritus [any]
            ·
            2 years ago

            the problem is that there has yet to be established a causal link between physical phenomena and subjective experience

            Qualia is inherently non-falsifiable.

            • NormalHumanLikeYou [undecided]
              ·
              2 years ago

              it is a logical concept, not an empirical physical phenomena. it is as non falsifiable as the number 3 or the concept of 'Up'

                • quarrk [he/him]
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  2 years ago

                  It simply a fact which forces one to consider the objectivity of their knowledge. The transmutation of subjective things into objective things (ideology being the most developed example) is the basis of many incorrect analyses, not least of which are those of the political economists whom Marx criticized and spent his career debunking.

                  • culpritus [any]
                    ·
                    2 years ago

                    Dialectical materialism doesn't rely on qualia existing as far as I'm aware though.

                  • culpritus [any]
                    ·
                    2 years ago

                    but definitionally it can't be proven, so must be fun to have job security I guess

          • culpritus [any]
            ·
            2 years ago

            According to a 2020 PhilPapers survey, 29.72% of philosophers surveyed believe that the hard problem does not exist, while 62.42% of philosophers surveyed believe that the hard problem is a genuine problem.

            It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It