• NotAShrimp [none/use name]
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    4 years ago

    No, as its an animal product, but I still identify as vegan and eat honey.

    Basically do whatever works for you, a part of veganism is defining your own philosophy in what and how you eat (other than obviously 1° avoiding animals products). Doing what you think is best and analysing what's good should be a core part of it. This includes criticism of both non vegans and typical vegan views.

    So I eat honey and my SO doesn't. I'm mostly vegan for environmental reasons and they are vegan for mostly animal welfare reasons. My point is we give them free housing, a good life good food and in return we eat their [long term food storage] - I think that's a pretty sweet, symbiotic deal. In turn they pollinate plants and help cultivate wildlife (where it would be lacking.) I'm from a less plant/insect biodiverse country and buy local so probably it does actually help pollination.

    My SO beleives that it's not fair because it can be a stressful process for the Queen and that it actually impedes an local bee biodiversity (so if it is already a biodiverse environment it out competes other bee populations and fucks up the environment). They're from a more biodiverse country so this is probably true if we were to get honey there.

    And final point for me, honey consumption is kind of trivial issue in the grand scheme of environmental issues, given my actual carbon footprint lol.

    • qublic69 [none/use name]
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      4 years ago

      in return we eat their waste

      No, you eat their food. Much of that harvested honey gets replaced with sugar water.
      I don't know if bees really care. Although they are kinda smart.

      I tend to be almost entirely vegan, but not obsessive or puritanical over it. That last 1% takes more effort than it is worth.
      If I know something has animal products, then I will avoid it, but I'm not reading every label while in the supermarket.

      Agave syrup can be a decent replacement for honey.

      • NotAShrimp [none/use name]
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        4 years ago

        You're right 'waste' is misleading, I meant more 'excess' as they don't starve, but it's their long term food storage, so food is defo more accurate. Yeah I'm kind of in the same boat tbh

        • 90u9y8gb9t86vytv97g [they/them]
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          4 years ago

          It is also not excess, else we would not need to replace it with sugar water. It is their stores over the winter and the sugar water we replace it with causes malnutrition.

      • NotAShrimp [none/use name]
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        4 years ago

        The point is you can also have vegan food that is bad for the environment and you can have animal product that doesn't hurt the animal and isn't particularly bad for the environment. Ie coca cola, palm oil, etc etc. So, you do you 😚

        • 90u9y8gb9t86vytv97g [they/them]
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          4 years ago

          you can have animal product that doesn’t hurt the animal

          Any "animal product" is a result of seeing the animal more as a resource than an individual being.

          Beekeeping is very harmful to the local environment, so if you're going to eat honey, own that but do not spread falsehoods.

    • 90u9y8gb9t86vytv97g [they/them]
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      4 years ago

      I’m mostly vegan for environmental reasons

      Resisting the urge to just call you a liberal like I usually do for fun because if you're vegan for environment then you're like me, and educating is more valuable.

      Do you know about the effect farming European honeybees in the US and any place they are not native to has on the local environment?

      Honeybees tend to keep more pollen and do not do as effective of a job at pollinating compared to wild bee species (most of which do not produce honey), so introducing beekeeping into an area and letting your "stock" go into the fields to drain flowers of pollen and nectar harms those endemic species and severely hurts the balance. European honeybees are considered an invasive species.

      Check this video from Earthling Ed out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clMNw_VO1xo

      It makes the ethical appeal first, then specifies the environmental impact.

        • 90u9y8gb9t86vytv97g [they/them]
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          4 years ago

          Some do, at some point the European honeybee was wild and we domesticated it because they produce honey as a storage behavior.

            • 90u9y8gb9t86vytv97g [they/them]
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              4 years ago

              Many bee species don't make honey, or some do and are far more aggressive in protection of their hives, or some are solitary and don't form colonies.

              There is this American honey producing bee that was cultivated by the Mayans, but deforestation is forcing it into extinction.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melipona_beecheii#Agriculture

        • 90u9y8gb9t86vytv97g [they/them]
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          4 years ago

          He's great, I recommend his video on eating the eggs of backyard chickens as well, that's also something a lot of vegans waver on thinking it's more humane.