I think a lot of people are a lot less conscious of the prevailing social and material forces of history that ultimately guide their actions than you give them credit for. I don't think people consciously think about a lot of the social trends they're participating in.
Age gaps are a very close proxy for patriarchy.
So I agree with that. I would argue that that's what I'm saying in general.
But what is culture if not the sum total of our personal selections?
I don't think that's a good materialist accounting of how culture works, is shaped, moves.
I think people know when something crosses outside that dynamic, and I think people know that a relationship like that is more transactional than loving.
My original point was essentially that patriarchal society shapes the socialization of men to view women as objects/fragile. That was to answer your question about age gaps. So I don't see why you made a snarky comment when it seems that you largely agree with me on this. I'm not defending any particular man as being unable to not be the vector of exploitation. I recognize that they are. But that doesn't really answer a question about why that's a trend that we can observe. Not to a materialist like most of the people here anyway. Maybe a liberal could be satisfied fully by writing off the actions of men as an aggregate onto individual cases of them being vectors of exploitation, which I understand to be something that is so pervasive, you'll see people that are otherwise progressive engage wholeheartedly in a misogyny deeply rooted in our violent patriachal cultural. But I don't think you're trying to "be a liberal" about it or whatever.
well...yeah. i am as well. i don't think i was really arguing that we should normalize it. it is normalized i suppose, but that's genuinely part of the reason i don't like going outside. men being men under patriarchy is a gross thing to look at.
I think a lot of people are a lot less conscious of the prevailing social and material forces of history that ultimately guide their actions than you give them credit for. I don't think people consciously think about a lot of the social trends they're participating in.
So I agree with that. I would argue that that's what I'm saying in general.
I don't think that's a good materialist accounting of how culture works, is shaped, moves.
My original point was essentially that patriarchal society shapes the socialization of men to view women as objects/fragile. That was to answer your question about age gaps. So I don't see why you made a snarky comment when it seems that you largely agree with me on this. I'm not defending any particular man as being unable to not be the vector of exploitation. I recognize that they are. But that doesn't really answer a question about why that's a trend that we can observe. Not to a materialist like most of the people here anyway. Maybe a liberal could be satisfied fully by writing off the actions of men as an aggregate onto individual cases of them being vectors of exploitation, which I understand to be something that is so pervasive, you'll see people that are otherwise progressive engage wholeheartedly in a misogyny deeply rooted in our violent patriachal cultural. But I don't think you're trying to "be a liberal" about it or whatever.
Maybe the best way to express my position is that I'm against the normalization of it.
well...yeah. i am as well. i don't think i was really arguing that we should normalize it. it is normalized i suppose, but that's genuinely part of the reason i don't like going outside. men being men under patriarchy is a gross thing to look at.