As always when this shit comes up, I wonder why it even matters if I want to say China Bad. Xi and China have their stuff on lock. My opinion and your opinion means nothing to China and has no effect on China. Nobody on here is going to suddenly agree with me if I want to say China Bad. It's not like our weird niche tribalistic leftist infighting actually moves the discourse in any particular direction.
What we should really care about is instilling an ethos of minding our own goddamn business. What other countries do in their own borders has nothing to do with us and it's wrong to try and intervene with their affairs. You're not going to kill American or European imperialism by magically causing an epiphany in the heads of every chud that actually they've been wrong all along and other communist countries own. You win by convincing folks that we should only worry about what's going on at home and respect other nations' sovereignty. Once that's the framework, every argument over China Good/China Bad has even lower stakes than it currently does.
It's the world police premise that we have the ability and the mandate to fuck with other countries that's the problem, not criticism.
So, socialism in one country? Didn't work out very well the first time around. Global capitalism can't be defeated by "only worrying about what's going on at home"--beyond the Soviet example, the Swedish Social Democrats learned that the hard way in the 70s and 80s, when they compromised on the EU to get the Meidner plan. That gave capital the tools they needed to move factories to Italy when Swedish workers tried to exercise their new rights.
The U.S. government shouldn't be doing jack shit, but we on the left need to be supporting our comrades in other countries and crafting foreign policy that pressures other countries to give workers more rights. The media has essentially succeeded in convincing people not to worry about what's going on "over there", and it hasn't resulted in respect for sovereignty or less drone strikes. We need to trust that people can get to the point where they can say "country XYZ did a bad thing, but U.S. military intervention/sanctions would be worse." If you don't have faith in people's ability to grasp that level of complexity, then a radically democratic ideology like ours is probably not a good fit.
We shouldn't be crafting any kind of foreign policy that involves interfering with the political situation in other countries one way or the other. Assuming we have a mandate to weigh in or influence what's going on in other nations is part of what got us here in the first place. Even a private movement that was completely decoupled from governmental influence would be unacceptable.
I completely trust in people's ability to say country X did a bad thing but that we still shouldn't get involved. I have faith that we can criticize the decisions of other nations and use those criticisms to improve our own political systems, which is fully compatible with an understanding that it is not our place to try and dictate policy from afar.
As always when this shit comes up, I wonder why it even matters if I want to say China Bad. Xi and China have their stuff on lock. My opinion and your opinion means nothing to China and has no effect on China. Nobody on here is going to suddenly agree with me if I want to say China Bad. It's not like our weird niche tribalistic leftist infighting actually moves the discourse in any particular direction.
What we should really care about is instilling an ethos of minding our own goddamn business. What other countries do in their own borders has nothing to do with us and it's wrong to try and intervene with their affairs. You're not going to kill American or European imperialism by magically causing an epiphany in the heads of every chud that actually they've been wrong all along and other communist countries own. You win by convincing folks that we should only worry about what's going on at home and respect other nations' sovereignty. Once that's the framework, every argument over China Good/China Bad has even lower stakes than it currently does.
It's the world police premise that we have the ability and the mandate to fuck with other countries that's the problem, not criticism.
So, socialism in one country? Didn't work out very well the first time around. Global capitalism can't be defeated by "only worrying about what's going on at home"--beyond the Soviet example, the Swedish Social Democrats learned that the hard way in the 70s and 80s, when they compromised on the EU to get the Meidner plan. That gave capital the tools they needed to move factories to Italy when Swedish workers tried to exercise their new rights.
The U.S. government shouldn't be doing jack shit, but we on the left need to be supporting our comrades in other countries and crafting foreign policy that pressures other countries to give workers more rights. The media has essentially succeeded in convincing people not to worry about what's going on "over there", and it hasn't resulted in respect for sovereignty or less drone strikes. We need to trust that people can get to the point where they can say "country XYZ did a bad thing, but U.S. military intervention/sanctions would be worse." If you don't have faith in people's ability to grasp that level of complexity, then a radically democratic ideology like ours is probably not a good fit.
We shouldn't be crafting any kind of foreign policy that involves interfering with the political situation in other countries one way or the other. Assuming we have a mandate to weigh in or influence what's going on in other nations is part of what got us here in the first place. Even a private movement that was completely decoupled from governmental influence would be unacceptable.
I completely trust in people's ability to say country X did a bad thing but that we still shouldn't get involved. I have faith that we can criticize the decisions of other nations and use those criticisms to improve our own political systems, which is fully compatible with an understanding that it is not our place to try and dictate policy from afar.
When I see takes like this, I just remember, the CIA’s spent an awful lot of money to keep us infighting.
If it doesn’t matter, why bother?