Most reliable genzedong news source. When you google A B Abrams, supposed writer of the book in question there is zero information about him other than the very questionable books he has written from very biased news sources. And there aren’t many.
Let me ask you this, what does A B in A B Abrams stand for? Nothing because they aren’t a real person.
When you google A B Abrams, one of the top results is from the “daily nk” i.e. the daily North Korea. Where we are told that the author has published under multiple pseudonyms, none of which we are told. They supposedly have multiple Masters degrees in “related fields” from the university of London. Which by the way, is not a single university but a group of different universities throughout London, so that’s even more vague. And then finally, we are told that “A B Abrams” studied korean at the university of Pyongyang. And has many contacts with people inside of North Korea.
To me, this screams propaganda, likely originating from North Korea or potentially even China, in order to make the west look bad. And you can make the west look bad without lying about the Tiananmen Square Massacre’s existence.
To deny the events that unfolded at Tiananmen Square is like denying that humans have been to the moon. It’s an unfounded, in fact, disprovable conspiracy theory.
Also, if the Tiananmen Square massacre had never happened, then why does the Chinese government continue to block any mention of it vis the firewall and censorship?
To deny the events that unfolded at Tiananmen Square is like denying that humans have been to the moon. It’s an unfounded, in fact, disprovable conspiracy theory.
So prove it to us then. All you're doing right now is scolding us for being insane conspiracy theorists. I've never seen any evidence that anything happened at tiananmen square. Reports from people who were actually there all say that there was no massacre
The US has a very long history of lying about its enemies. There are plenty of declassified CIA docs that talk about what lies to tell the media. Why is this one different?
Edit: also, see pen names. Isn't it a little hypocritical to call us conspiracy theorists when you come to the conclusion that the book was lies written by China or North Korea because you can't find any information about the author?
I can’t prove it to you, I just use my skills at googling “A B Abrams” to conclude that this is untrustworthy. I also can’t prove that the moon landing happened or that matter is made of atoms, doesn’t mean they are false.
See my edit. But here's the thing. We have video of the moon landing and rocks from the actual moon. That's solid evidence. We have plenty of evidence of the atom existing, because half our tech wouldn't work if they didn't exist.
Where is the evidence of a massacre at tiananmen square? Please read the links I gave you.
Edit: please remember, you said that this was an easily disprovable conspiracy theory.
To add to WhatWouldKarlDo's posts, which provided credible counter-evidence (A CBS reporter on location, and a Latin American diplomat's leaked eyewitness account), I want to further emphasise that using a search engine to assess credibility and provide ethos isn't a strong argument. If I search your username, and if you search mine, neither of us will show up as a real person and both our histories will show we reply to political topics. Should we therefore conclude we're both just writing propaganda, and further assume that makes it false?
We're writing opinions or analyses, and hopefully, substantiating them with evidence. And surely the book is doing the same.
The Daily NK is a South Korean newspaper that also happens to be funded by the US through the National Endowment for Democracy. It would be funny if the US were funding a North Korean propaganda outfit but somehow I don’t think that’s what’s happening.
It would be funny if the US were funding a North Korean propaganda outfit but somehow I don’t think that’s what’s happening.
Hey, maybe while we were out posting, the reincarnated Huey Newton and William Z. Foster took over the US government and established a Marxist-Leninist state. After all, nobody can right at this instant prove it didn't happen...
Also, if the Tiananmen Square massacre had never happened, then why does the Chinese government continue to block any mention of it vis the firewall and censorship?
Because the purpose of the firewall is to keep the West out.
This is like asking why people who call the Civil War the "War of Northern Aggression" are censored/ignored. It's historically inaccurate and you deserve to be the subject of animus and suspicion if you do so.
That's the most hilarious part. It isn't censored in China at all. They just call it a different name and gullible westerners assume that the blank looks Chinese people give them when they froth at the mouth about "The tinyman square massacre" is proof that THE TRUTH is censored in China.
Not censored. It's openly discussed in the literature. Unsurprisingly, they don't let you spread unsubstantiated claims about massacres, though.
If, as I've seen many a white "journalist" do, you go up to a random chinese person on the streets and ask "Hey do you know about the thousands of people that were massacred?" they would, very understandably, think you were deranged.
"June 4th incident" or "counter-revolutionary riot/rebellion" is part of a larger topic called "1989 Political Disturbance/Turmoil", those who are interested can try searching with these terms.
BTW, in China "Tiananmen incident" refers to the 1976 incident, both incidents began from the mournings of Chinese leaders (Zhou Enlai in 1976 and Hu Yaobang in 1989).
Because the purpose of the firewall is to keep the West out.
This is a common misconception. The real purpose of the Great Firewall is to keep China's posters in. The CPC is doing the world a great kindness. I've seen the magnitude of posting that happens in China. We could not survive posting of that magnitude.
100% more reliable as a source than Adrian Zenz and yet Im sure you believe all the Uigher genocide bullshit that almost always circles back to him or literally U.S. mouthpieces like Radio Free Asia
I don’t believe that “A B Abrams” is a reliable source, I don’t know anything about these other things you say. But when I googled A B Abrams, I only found a small selection of very suspect websites. And for that reason, I do not trust this article or this book
you verify a suspect source by analyzing their material and checking their sources for accuracy. just discounting a source because you can't find info about them is itself unsound reasoning.
"Suspect" based on what exactly? Your preconceived notions of what "good" journalism and places are? Based on your education by Western states with vested interests in portraying their enemies as evil as possible?
He isn't the source, he is the author. As far as I have read he is not claiming firsthand knowledge of the events from the incident. It honestly shouldn't matter to you if it was written by Mao himself, if there are directly verifiable sources being presented.
The reliable sources are the accounts he cites, like the diplomats who provided first hand accounts of events there.
Why don't you read the book, investigate the citations and claims, and report back on whether the text is fabricated?
Whether or not the writer has a connection to China or the DPRK doesn't actually impact the soundness of any claim. If anything, you are taking an extreme position about academic authority that isn't reflective of reality. You should use your critical thinking skills to assess the claims in the book instead of attacking the author because they might be a Korean or Chinese national. It is kinda racist to assume someone from China or Pyongyang are unable to write on these topics without it being "propaganda"
Exactly how many times has the US lied to us? You expect me to to belive the country that said Iraq had WMD when they say anything? When they brag about lying all the time?
Ok, I know they were lying about the WMDs, and the Nayirah testimony, and the gulf of Tonkin, and the sinking of the USS Maine, and about Cuba, the USSR and all of their enemies throughout history, but they're telling the truth this time!
Don't you know? If a source comes for CHYNA or NORF COURIER it is automatically fake and lies. Automatically. If Xi Jinping said the moon is real, it would instantly pop out of existence.
in order to make the west look bad. And you can make the west look bad without lying about the Tiananmen Square Massacre’s existence.
Then why would these sources be lying?
NKnews and Daily NK are anti-DPRK news outlets funded by the U.S. Be pretty funny if even y'all's most orientalist propaganda outlet turned out to be Norf Kowean (OR EVEN CHINESE!!!) Pwopaganda!
Also, if the Tiananmen Square massacre had never happened, then why does the Chinese government continue to block any mention of it vis the firewall and censorship
Open report 590, it's the first item of the day. I hope you didn't expect they would talk about it in English.
If you are actually interested in learning about the event and you are skeptical if this book, then you should look at Qiao Collective’s reading list: https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/tiananmenreadinglist
if the Tiananmen Square massacre had never happened, then why does the Chinese government continue to block any mention of it vis the firewall and censorship?
They don't. People in China know that the protests in 89 happened, they just don't think it's a big deal. The idea that it's this huge dangerous taboo is just western brainworms
Dude. These people are insane and not worth your time. Just block the sub like I’m about to do and never look back. They can find comfort in their eco chamber
"People who disagree with me are mentally ill and worthless. I, for one, prefer to create my own comfortable eco chamber, never look back, and then accuse them of living in an eco chamber."
Nah, you're in the echo believing western propaganda that you're too stupid to recognize. You probably believe in weeger genocide. Ethnic minorities, including uighurs were excluded from the one child policy. If China wanted to do genocide, why would they be exempt from draconian population control that was already in place?
The idea is that people who are new or casually scrolling by whom know little of what lemmygrad is or what their goals on lemmygrad are will see the one side being rude and the other politly informing or educating the other side.
the actual result of typing up an effort post rationally debunking point after point, with citations, is that 99% of people, including the person you're responding to, skimming it looking for a single line they can grab on to and twist it back around at you. sometimes it pays to do that but most of the time, my experience is that you convince more people if you can break the hold of liberal hegemony within their minds. and decidedly uncivil means are much more effective at doing that. many (most?) of the posters on hexbear were libs or even borderline fash who stumbled onto the old reddit sub, got thoroughly mocked for spouting bullshit, and stuck around to learn more because they couldn't shake the nagging feeling that they were missing something.
different rules obviously apply in offline spaces but it's that urge to bring rules from one space into another, very different arena that's at the heart of this issue.
I understand however my point is not to type out books to them, but simply call out their behavior or misinfo in a logical way. For example, what we are doing here. Simply discussing.
Most reliable genzedong news source. When you google A B Abrams, supposed writer of the book in question there is zero information about him other than the very questionable books he has written from very biased news sources. And there aren’t many.
Let me ask you this, what does A B in A B Abrams stand for? Nothing because they aren’t a real person.
When you google A B Abrams, one of the top results is from the “daily nk” i.e. the daily North Korea. Where we are told that the author has published under multiple pseudonyms, none of which we are told. They supposedly have multiple Masters degrees in “related fields” from the university of London. Which by the way, is not a single university but a group of different universities throughout London, so that’s even more vague. And then finally, we are told that “A B Abrams” studied korean at the university of Pyongyang. And has many contacts with people inside of North Korea.
To me, this screams propaganda, likely originating from North Korea or potentially even China, in order to make the west look bad. And you can make the west look bad without lying about the Tiananmen Square Massacre’s existence.
To deny the events that unfolded at Tiananmen Square is like denying that humans have been to the moon. It’s an unfounded, in fact, disprovable conspiracy theory.
Also, if the Tiananmen Square massacre had never happened, then why does the Chinese government continue to block any mention of it vis the firewall and censorship?
So prove it to us then. All you're doing right now is scolding us for being insane conspiracy theorists. I've never seen any evidence that anything happened at tiananmen square. Reports from people who were actually there all say that there was no massacre
The US has a very long history of lying about its enemies. There are plenty of declassified CIA docs that talk about what lies to tell the media. Why is this one different?
Edit: also, see pen names. Isn't it a little hypocritical to call us conspiracy theorists when you come to the conclusion that the book was lies written by China or North Korea because you can't find any information about the author?
Radlibs and seeing irony are the bitterest of foes.
I can’t prove it to you, I just use my skills at googling “A B Abrams” to conclude that this is untrustworthy. I also can’t prove that the moon landing happened or that matter is made of atoms, doesn’t mean they are false.
See my edit. But here's the thing. We have video of the moon landing and rocks from the actual moon. That's solid evidence. We have plenty of evidence of the atom existing, because half our tech wouldn't work if they didn't exist.
Where is the evidence of a massacre at tiananmen square? Please read the links I gave you.
Edit: please remember, you said that this was an easily disprovable conspiracy theory.
lmao okay
To add to WhatWouldKarlDo's posts, which provided credible counter-evidence (A CBS reporter on location, and a Latin American diplomat's leaked eyewitness account), I want to further emphasise that using a search engine to assess credibility and provide ethos isn't a strong argument. If I search your username, and if you search mine, neither of us will show up as a real person and both our histories will show we reply to political topics. Should we therefore conclude we're both just writing propaganda, and further assume that makes it false?
We're writing opinions or analyses, and hopefully, substantiating them with evidence. And surely the book is doing the same.
deleted by creator
The Daily NK is a South Korean newspaper that also happens to be funded by the US through the National Endowment for Democracy. It would be funny if the US were funding a North Korean propaganda outfit but somehow I don’t think that’s what’s happening.
Hey, maybe while we were out posting, the reincarnated Huey Newton and William Z. Foster took over the US government and established a Marxist-Leninist state. After all, nobody can right at this instant prove it didn't happen...
Because the purpose of the firewall is to keep the West out.
This is like asking why people who call the Civil War the "War of Northern Aggression" are censored/ignored. It's historically inaccurate and you deserve to be the subject of animus and suspicion if you do so.
from what I've heard, they don't even block discussion of it in China, it's just called the "June 4th incident" 😑
That's the most hilarious part. It isn't censored in China at all. They just call it a different name and gullible westerners assume that the blank looks Chinese people give them when they froth at the mouth about "The tinyman square massacre" is proof that THE TRUTH is censored in China.
Yeah, they don't let people spread lies about it, but it's part of their history
Not censored. It's openly discussed in the literature. Unsurprisingly, they don't let you spread unsubstantiated claims about massacres, though.
If, as I've seen many a white "journalist" do, you go up to a random chinese person on the streets and ask "Hey do you know about the thousands of people that were massacred?" they would, very understandably, think you were deranged.
"June 4th incident" or "counter-revolutionary riot/rebellion" is part of a larger topic called "1989 Political Disturbance/Turmoil", those who are interested can try searching with these terms.
BTW, in China "Tiananmen incident" refers to the 1976 incident, both incidents began from the mournings of Chinese leaders (Zhou Enlai in 1976 and Hu Yaobang in 1989).
This is a common misconception. The real purpose of the Great Firewall is to keep China's posters in. The CPC is doing the world a great kindness. I've seen the magnitude of posting that happens in China. We could not survive posting of that magnitude.
100% more reliable as a source than Adrian Zenz and yet Im sure you believe all the Uigher genocide bullshit that almost always circles back to him or literally U.S. mouthpieces like Radio Free Asia
I don’t believe that “A B Abrams” is a reliable source, I don’t know anything about these other things you say. But when I googled A B Abrams, I only found a small selection of very suspect websites. And for that reason, I do not trust this article or this book
you verify a suspect source by analyzing their material and checking their sources for accuracy. just discounting a source because you can't find info about them is itself unsound reasoning.
"Suspect" based on what exactly? Your preconceived notions of what "good" journalism and places are? Based on your education by Western states with vested interests in portraying their enemies as evil as possible?
How do you feel about COVID vaccines?
k
He isn't the source, he is the author. As far as I have read he is not claiming firsthand knowledge of the events from the incident. It honestly shouldn't matter to you if it was written by Mao himself, if there are directly verifiable sources being presented.
The reliable sources are the accounts he cites, like the diplomats who provided first hand accounts of events there.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
I don’t know what this means
Use your grade A googling skills to figure it out.
It means shut up lib, less debate more study
deleted by creator
Why don't you read the book, investigate the citations and claims, and report back on whether the text is fabricated?
Whether or not the writer has a connection to China or the DPRK doesn't actually impact the soundness of any claim. If anything, you are taking an extreme position about academic authority that isn't reflective of reality. You should use your critical thinking skills to assess the claims in the book instead of attacking the author because they might be a Korean or Chinese national. It is kinda racist to assume someone from China or Pyongyang are unable to write on these topics without it being "propaganda"
Exactly how many times has the US lied to us? You expect me to to belive the country that said Iraq had WMD when they say anything? When they brag about lying all the time?
Ok, I know they were lying about the WMDs, and the Nayirah testimony, and the gulf of Tonkin, and the sinking of the USS Maine, and about Cuba, the USSR and all of their enemies throughout history, but they're telling the truth this time!
Don't you know? If a source comes for CHYNA or NORF COURIER it is automatically fake and lies. Automatically. If Xi Jinping said the moon is real, it would instantly pop out of existence.
Then why would these sources be lying?
NKnews and Daily NK are anti-DPRK news outlets funded by the U.S. Be pretty funny if even y'all's most orientalist propaganda outlet turned out to be Norf Kowean (OR EVEN CHINESE!!!) Pwopaganda!
(Almost like the Daily NK is a conservative capitalist publication in a capitalist country designed to slander the DPRK)
Publishing under a pseudonym makes a lot of sense to me when you are publishing books that could be hazardous to your health.
If you wanna read an informative text on this topic that is sourced you can refer to: https://redsails.org/another-view-of-tiananmen/
It is long but crucially contains the background of the protests which most people are unaware of.
Open report 590, it's the first item of the day. I hope you didn't expect they would talk about it in English.
This just in: Author known for writing books.
If you are actually interested in learning about the event and you are skeptical if this book, then you should look at Qiao Collective’s reading list: https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/tiananmenreadinglist
They don't. People in China know that the protests in 89 happened, they just don't think it's a big deal. The idea that it's this huge dangerous taboo is just western
brainworms 
Dude. These people are insane and not worth your time. Just block the sub like I’m about to do and never look back. They can find comfort in their eco chamber
"People who disagree with me are mentally ill and worthless. I, for one, prefer to create my own comfortable eco chamber, never look back, and then accuse them of living in an eco chamber."
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Nah, you're in the echo believing western propaganda that you're too stupid to recognize. You probably believe in weeger genocide. Ethnic minorities, including uighurs were excluded from the one child policy. If China wanted to do genocide, why would they be exempt from draconian population control that was already in place?
Please let's not name call these people, it only boldens them to say more misinfo against PRC/CPC
they're gonna do that even if we're polite to them. civility tone policing sucks.
The idea is that people who are new or casually scrolling by whom know little of what lemmygrad is or what their goals on lemmygrad are will see the one side being rude and the other politly informing or educating the other side.
the actual result of typing up an effort post rationally debunking point after point, with citations, is that 99% of people, including the person you're responding to, skimming it looking for a single line they can grab on to and twist it back around at you. sometimes it pays to do that but most of the time, my experience is that you convince more people if you can break the hold of liberal hegemony within their minds. and decidedly uncivil means are much more effective at doing that. many (most?) of the posters on hexbear were libs or even borderline fash who stumbled onto the old reddit sub, got thoroughly mocked for spouting bullshit, and stuck around to learn more because they couldn't shake the nagging feeling that they were missing something.
different rules obviously apply in offline spaces but it's that urge to bring rules from one space into another, very different arena that's at the heart of this issue.
I understand however my point is not to type out books to them, but simply call out their behavior or misinfo in a logical way. For example, what we are doing here. Simply discussing.
It will help the undecided scroller see, more clearly who is discussing in good faith and whom is not.