Look, you can't just call every testimonial propaganda. Sure, the first-hand accounts getting lots of play in the western media are probably sus, but there are dozens of these, many that are obscure and not spread across western media, where people give accounts of forced sterilization. So let's take that with a grain of salt and look at the other evidence. And by other evidence I mean only information from the Chinese government. The governor of Xinjiang gave an interview two years ago where they acknowledge that there are camps, do not deny that Uyghur Muslims are being forced into them, but frame them as a 're-education'. They say that some Uyghurs are radicals who join ISIS and are prone to commit acts of terrorism and extremism and that's why this 're-education' is occurring (does this terrorist fear-mongering sound familiar?). http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-10/16/c_137535821.htm So now we have two pieces of evidence, the Chinese government admitting that people are being forced into camps, and dozens of first-hand accounts of people being in those camps with some talking about forced sterilization. Well lets look at birthrates in the Xinjiang region, from Chinese government statistics. Here is the data from 2017 - http://www.stats.gov.cn/tjsj/ndsj/2018/indexeh.htm and here is the data from 2018 - http://www.stats.gov.cn/tjsj/ndsj/2019/indexeh.htm Navigate on the sidebar to section 2.8. You'll notice in 2017 Xinjiang had a birthrate of 15.88% and in the year after the camps, that China admits are fucking real, the birthrate drops to 10.69%. This is after years of the birthrate in the region hovering around 14%-15%. So no, you absolute fucking clown, it is not a hunch that forced sterilizations are occurring. Uyghurs are telling us they are being sent to camps, and the Chinese fucking admit that. While the Chinese don't admit that forced sterilizations are occurring, the Uyghurs are telling us they are, and the fucking birthrate statistics compiled by the Chinese government corroborate this claim. Do you think this is fucking western propaganda too, ya fucking dullard?
The governor of Xinjiang gave an interview two years ago where they acknowledge that there are camps, do not deny that Uyghur Muslims are being forced into them, but frame them as a ‘re-education’. They say that some Uyghurs are radicals who join ISIS and are prone to commit acts of terrorism and extremism and that’s why this ‘re-education’ is occurring (does this terrorist fear-mongering sound familiar?).
That is literally what is happening. Why does there have to be some secret evil supervillian plot behind it? It's literally a restorative justice program. Would you have them literally drone-striking people instead?
You’ll notice in 2017 Xinjiang had a birthrate of 15.88% and in the year after the camps, that China admits are fucking real, the birthrate drops to 10.69%. This is after years of the birthrate in the region hovering around 14%-15%. So no, you absolute fucking clown, it is not a hunch that forced sterilizations are occurring.
Clearly the only way birthrates can decline is through forced sterilization, which will totally help advance the goals of the Chinese government somehow.
Up until 2015, the Chinese government enforced a "one-child" family planning policy countrywide, which allowed most urban couples no more than one baby. Ethnic minorities, such as the Uyghur people, were typically allowed to have up to three but Xinjiang expert Zenz said that families from these groups often had many more children.
When China officially began the two-child policy in January 2016, Uyghur citizens living in cities were limited to two children for the first time as well -- their rural counterparts could still have up to three.
The Xinjiang government attributed the sudden drop in population to Beijing's family planning policies finally being properly implemented in the region after 2017.
"In 2018, the number of newborns decreased by approximately 120,000 compared with 2017, of which about 80,000 were because of better implementation of family planning policy in accordance with law, according to estimates by the health and statistics department," the response to CNN said. The government insisted that those who complied with the family planning policies did so voluntarily.
The article also talks about IUDs, which also aren't forced sterilization.
Edit from my comment below:
Xinjiang’s birthrate of 10.69% is literally higher than a number of places in China according to the 2019 data you gave. It’s literally higher than Beijing (8.24%) and only slightly lower than the national average. It seems like this statistic alone pretty much disproves the concept that there’s something unusual happening. It resulted in a greater decline because the birthrate in Xinjiang was higher than in other places before policy implementation in those places ie they were being very lenient in Xinjiang (probably to help the Uighur population increase more). I’m not sure how you could look at your own data and conclude that Xinjiang is being singled out somehow. The data shows that after implementing family planning in Xinjiang, birthrate decreased to the same as most other places. People can do endless fiddling with data to make any narrative you want of course, this is something American propaganda is great at doing.
You're extremely dense. The article is literally a hit-piece against China that quotes Adrian Zenz, but even they included the Chinese government's perspective and were more truthful than you're being.
RE the stuff you edited in afterwards. There are lots of places that do bilingual education. There are tons of people who speak their native language and English. It's a neccesity for many people and helps integrate people into the larger society.
Yeah, the article I posted is CNN, but I'm using a quote from the Chinese government in the CNN article. Why would I use Adrian Zenz to refute his own propaganda lol.
You need to go to sleep or something because I'm literally not accusing you of "quoting Zenz". Like are you actually drunk or something lol. I'm talking about the article I posted.
Because, according to the spokesperson, they have only now properly implemented their family planning law in Xinjiang (because perhaps they were being lenient previously), whereas other locations already had it implemented.
Xinjiang's birthrate of 10.69% is literally higher than a number of places in China according to the 2019 data you gave. It's literally higher than Beijing (8.24%) and only slightly lower than the national average. It seems like this statistic alone pretty much disproves the concept that there's something unusual happening. It resulted in a greater decline because the birthrate in Xinjiang was higher than in other places before policy implementation in those places ie they were being very lenient in Xinjiang (probably to help the Uighur population increase more). I'm not sure how you could look at your own data and conclude that Xinjiang is being singled out somehow. The data shows that after implementing family planning in Xinjiang, birthrate decreased to the same as most other places. People can do endless fiddling with data to make any narrative you want of course, this is something American propaganda is great at doing.
Because the 14%-15% is higher than elsewhere in China. 15% is a higher birthrate than half the provinces listed in the 2018 data so its obvious that it would decrease more to get to 10% than somewhere else. The quotes from the China spokesperson I gave literally explain that entirely. They implemented family planning in Xinjiang which was already implemented elsewhere. I'm not sure why you're so obsessed with "national birthrate decline average versus Xinjiang birthrate decline", that's a very cherrypicked statistic.
The Shandong drop is literally a 4.28% decrease, or are you trying to tell me that that final 1-2% difference between that and Xinjiang proves there is a genocide ocuring? You're just trying very very hard to eek out some sort of narrative from a bunch of generic data, which is of course exactly the kind of thing propagandists love doing because it's so easy and convincing on the surface. You could generate literally any narrative you want using this kind of data. You could create some kind of "Han genocide" narrative where Han Chinese people are being mass sterilized by their government if you wanted, and it would be more convincing than this Xinjiang stuff lol. Also notice how Beijing has a ~8% birthrate. Potentially Xinjiang's birthrate is also decreasing because people there are leaving poverty and thus having fewer kids.
So you're telling me that genocide in Xinjiang rests on 32.6% versus 24.4% birthrate decline and that the difference cannot be explained by anything other than forced sterilization? This is literally just insanity. You're saying that there is nothing in the world that can change birthrate by that last 12% other than genocide? This is a good discussion because it shows that when you put narratives under a microscope, they are revealed as ridiculous. I mean at least you actually did some analysis. People like Adrian Zenz just forget a decimal place and suddenly there's a genocide. Does "statistical significance" now equate to genocide?
Look, you can't just call every testimonial propaganda. Sure, the first-hand accounts getting lots of play in the western media are probably sus, but there are dozens of these, many that are obscure and not spread across western media, where people give accounts of forced sterilization. So let's take that with a grain of salt and look at the other evidence. And by other evidence I mean only information from the Chinese government. The governor of Xinjiang gave an interview two years ago where they acknowledge that there are camps, do not deny that Uyghur Muslims are being forced into them, but frame them as a 're-education'. They say that some Uyghurs are radicals who join ISIS and are prone to commit acts of terrorism and extremism and that's why this 're-education' is occurring (does this terrorist fear-mongering sound familiar?). http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-10/16/c_137535821.htm So now we have two pieces of evidence, the Chinese government admitting that people are being forced into camps, and dozens of first-hand accounts of people being in those camps with some talking about forced sterilization. Well lets look at birthrates in the Xinjiang region, from Chinese government statistics. Here is the data from 2017 - http://www.stats.gov.cn/tjsj/ndsj/2018/indexeh.htm and here is the data from 2018 - http://www.stats.gov.cn/tjsj/ndsj/2019/indexeh.htm Navigate on the sidebar to section 2.8. You'll notice in 2017 Xinjiang had a birthrate of 15.88% and in the year after the camps, that China admits are fucking real, the birthrate drops to 10.69%. This is after years of the birthrate in the region hovering around 14%-15%. So no, you absolute fucking clown, it is not a hunch that forced sterilizations are occurring. Uyghurs are telling us they are being sent to camps, and the Chinese fucking admit that. While the Chinese don't admit that forced sterilizations are occurring, the Uyghurs are telling us they are, and the fucking birthrate statistics compiled by the Chinese government corroborate this claim. Do you think this is fucking western propaganda too, ya fucking dullard?
That is literally what is happening. Why does there have to be some secret evil supervillian plot behind it? It's literally a restorative justice program. Would you have them literally drone-striking people instead?
Clearly the only way birthrates can decline is through forced sterilization, which will totally help advance the goals of the Chinese government somehow.
Here's China's response (from a CNN article):
The article also talks about IUDs, which also aren't forced sterilization.
Edit from my comment below: Xinjiang’s birthrate of 10.69% is literally higher than a number of places in China according to the 2019 data you gave. It’s literally higher than Beijing (8.24%) and only slightly lower than the national average. It seems like this statistic alone pretty much disproves the concept that there’s something unusual happening. It resulted in a greater decline because the birthrate in Xinjiang was higher than in other places before policy implementation in those places ie they were being very lenient in Xinjiang (probably to help the Uighur population increase more). I’m not sure how you could look at your own data and conclude that Xinjiang is being singled out somehow. The data shows that after implementing family planning in Xinjiang, birthrate decreased to the same as most other places. People can do endless fiddling with data to make any narrative you want of course, this is something American propaganda is great at doing.
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You're extremely dense. The article is literally a hit-piece against China that quotes Adrian Zenz, but even they included the Chinese government's perspective and were more truthful than you're being.
RE the stuff you edited in afterwards. There are lots of places that do bilingual education. There are tons of people who speak their native language and English. It's a neccesity for many people and helps integrate people into the larger society.
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Yeah, the article I posted is CNN, but I'm using a quote from the Chinese government in the CNN article. Why would I use Adrian Zenz to refute his own propaganda lol.
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What the hell are you on about? I'm literally just using the article for a quote from a Chinese government spokesperson.
What article did I post that quotes Zenz? How fucking stupid are you?
You need to go to sleep or something because I'm literally not accusing you of "quoting Zenz". Like are you actually drunk or something lol. I'm talking about the article I posted.
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"The article" as in the one I posted.
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Because, according to the spokesperson, they have only now properly implemented their family planning law in Xinjiang (because perhaps they were being lenient previously), whereas other locations already had it implemented.
deleted by creator
Xinjiang's birthrate of 10.69% is literally higher than a number of places in China according to the 2019 data you gave. It's literally higher than Beijing (8.24%) and only slightly lower than the national average. It seems like this statistic alone pretty much disproves the concept that there's something unusual happening. It resulted in a greater decline because the birthrate in Xinjiang was higher than in other places before policy implementation in those places ie they were being very lenient in Xinjiang (probably to help the Uighur population increase more). I'm not sure how you could look at your own data and conclude that Xinjiang is being singled out somehow. The data shows that after implementing family planning in Xinjiang, birthrate decreased to the same as most other places. People can do endless fiddling with data to make any narrative you want of course, this is something American propaganda is great at doing.
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Because the 14%-15% is higher than elsewhere in China. 15% is a higher birthrate than half the provinces listed in the 2018 data so its obvious that it would decrease more to get to 10% than somewhere else. The quotes from the China spokesperson I gave literally explain that entirely. They implemented family planning in Xinjiang which was already implemented elsewhere. I'm not sure why you're so obsessed with "national birthrate decline average versus Xinjiang birthrate decline", that's a very cherrypicked statistic.
deleted by creator
The Shandong drop is literally a 4.28% decrease, or are you trying to tell me that that final 1-2% difference between that and Xinjiang proves there is a genocide ocuring? You're just trying very very hard to eek out some sort of narrative from a bunch of generic data, which is of course exactly the kind of thing propagandists love doing because it's so easy and convincing on the surface. You could generate literally any narrative you want using this kind of data. You could create some kind of "Han genocide" narrative where Han Chinese people are being mass sterilized by their government if you wanted, and it would be more convincing than this Xinjiang stuff lol. Also notice how Beijing has a ~8% birthrate. Potentially Xinjiang's birthrate is also decreasing because people there are leaving poverty and thus having fewer kids.
deleted by creator
So you're telling me that genocide in Xinjiang rests on 32.6% versus 24.4% birthrate decline and that the difference cannot be explained by anything other than forced sterilization? This is literally just insanity. You're saying that there is nothing in the world that can change birthrate by that last 12% other than genocide? This is a good discussion because it shows that when you put narratives under a microscope, they are revealed as ridiculous. I mean at least you actually did some analysis. People like Adrian Zenz just forget a decimal place and suddenly there's a genocide. Does "statistical significance" now equate to genocide?