I immediately went to the sections on these two topics and was not disappointed.
Rampant US Theft of Intellectual Property and Data
The U.S. frequently accuses other members of stealing its intellectual property. However, in fact, the U.S. has been stealing other members’ trade secrets, data and undisclosed information through various means for a long time, seriously violating TRIPS Agreement’s basic principles on intellectual property protection, failing to fulfill its obligations under Article 39 of the TRIPS Agreement on the protection of undisclosed information, and posing a serious threat to the national or regional security of the victim members.
With a wide range of targets and high frequency of attacking, cyber attacks and telephone surveillance are major methods for the U.S. to steal other members’ secrets, data and information. According to statistics results from National Computer Network Emergency Response Technical Team/Coordination Center of China, in the first half of 2021, the center captured about 23.07 million malicious program samples, with daily average transmission exceeding 5.82 million times, involving about 208,000 malicious program families, about half of which originated from the U.S. In September 2022, Northwestern Polytechnical University of China was attacked by the U.S. National Security Agency. The university’s core technical data, including critical network device configuration, network management data and operation and maintenance data, were stolen during the attack. Investigations have unveiled that the U.S. used 41 special cyber attack weapons for the attack. What’s more, the Tailored Access Operations under the U.S. National Security Agency has carried out tens of thousands of malicious cyber attacks on cyber targets in China over the years, taking control of relevant network equipment and obtaining large amounts of data. According to reports, the U.S. has also conducted monitoring and information theft of global broadcasting, telecommunications, and the Internet through related intelligence-gathering projects.
Rampant US Biopiracy
American biotechnology companies are notorious for their rampant engagement in “biopiracy”. Relying on its economic and technological advantages, American biotechnology companies commercially exploit genetic resources obtained at low cost from developing countries and apply for patent protection, so as to gain huge profits. In 1997, an agriculture enterprise in the U.S. applied for 20 patents after hybridizing basmati rice with an American long indica rice, which severely restricted the export of basmati rice from India. The top agriculture enterprises of the U.S. took advantage of the ineffective enforcement of international intellectual property rules and the weakness of developing members in the protection and utilization of intellectual property rights, wantonly stealing biological genetic resources, appropriating a large number of local excellent crop trait genes of developing members. For example, the U.S. applied a large number of patents around the world on the genes for high-yield traits of soybeans originating from China, and then monopolized the market by abusing its technology and market advantages. After the completion of patent registration, the U.S. agriculture enterprises in turn charged high patent fees from many members, including the members where the patented genetic resources originating from. Such biopiracy conduct seriously damages the intellectual property rights and food security of the developing members.
I think we can agree that they both steal and accuse each other. Why wouldn’t they?
Yes, and I support China stealing whatever it deems productive it steal in terms of IP from the US. The point is that there's a trope about China only being able to make knock-offs and only having the success it has from stealing which is ultimately a chauvinist caricature.
It’s a jingoistic caricature. I’m not informed enough to know the difference what the difference between standards are for products of the two countries.
I do agree there is a common sentiment that Chinese products are inferior to their American counterparts. If China or the USA want to steal product specs from each other to make better products that we end up buying, cool. I’d rather buy better products and I’m sure you would too.
I was coming at it more from the standpoint that undercutting the US by taking its IP (i.e. not actually impoverishing members of the general population) is a good thing for the world, but your point is also fair.
I completely agree. I hate most IP laws because I believe it stifles progress that we as a human race can all benefit from. There are of course exceptions but none really come to mind right now. No one should have to go hungry so someone else can have more money than they know what to do with.
I do agree there is a common sentiment that Chinese products are inferior to their American counterparts
Which products? China has made serious strides in manufacturing quality over the last few decades. But they do produce most of the cheaper products as well. I'm not disagreeing with you that is the sentiment in the USA.
Well if we are talking about sentiments, I can’t recall a single product where anyone prefers a Chinese counterpart compared to European, Canadian, American, Japanese etc product.
Not sure if the blame can be put on Chinese though since a lot of American companies outsource their manufacturing to China. Companies that do this try to cut costs and probably do so on the specs that they want the Chinese to build for them.
The common belief here is that there is less oversight and laws in the manufacturing process so an item that might not pass inspection in another country would pass in China.
Chinese manufacturing is ubiquitous though so trading will continue happening on a massive scale for the foreseeable future. I imagine the manufacturing process will only get better as well. At the same time American companies doing business with china may call for cheap specs on a product thus giving china a bad rep.
This is just how I see it as an American who has no issue with China.
Right, every country and company engages in tech espionage. Yet, a lot of people in the west pretend as if China is some unique outlier in that regard.
I understand that the pro China sentiments are strong here and I’m going to be downvoted. I live in the DC area and people around here are aware that everyone is involved in espionage. Russia does it all the time too.
No one believes that china is the only one doing this. Their capacity to do so may be stronger than most countries (same with USA)
It’s always going to be an issue for every advanced country.
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here. Yes, every country spies to the best of their capacity, that's the nature of the game. While no sane person believes that China is the only one doing this, we constantly get media stories framed that way and there are a lot of mouth breathers running around screeching that China steals western tech. I think the only actual issue is the existence of copyrights and intellectual property. These stand directly in the way of human advancement and should be abolished.
Well of course USA media isn’t going to say “USA got caught stealing IP from china” or anything like that. I’d wager that China doesn’t do it either lol. They both accuse each other while at the same time reaching into each others back pockets. Ones not better than the other.
I get the impression that US talks about China a lot more than China talks about the US.
While US keeps perseverating over China collapsing, China stealing US tech, China becoming a global power, and so on, China's been busy working on doing things like eliminating poverty, creating public infrastructure, providing healthcare, housing, food, and education for all citizens. Chinese government practically eliminated poverty, building infrastructure having used more concrete in 3 years than US in all of 20th century, building 27,000km of high speed rail in a decade.
China has also been doing things like ensuring that everyone has housing with 90% of families in the country own their home giving China one of the highest home ownership rates in the world.China's been improving real wages (i.e. the wage adjusted for the prices you pay) that have gone up 4x in the past 25 years, more than any other country, and making sure people have high social mobility.
So, yeah one's a lot better than the other when you look at the outcomes. This meme basically sums up the dynamic perfectly.
Show
I understand your points even if they are off topic. I wish everyone would be rich and prosperous. I have nothing against the Chinese and the ones I’ve met around me have all been great people. It’s easy to get lost in government dick swinging
Yeah I went somewhat on a rant there, and completely agree. I think it would be great if countries focused on improving themselves first and foremost.
The reason you're getting downvoted is probably more of a reflex than anything else. We get a lot of concern trolls here who love to sealion and generally be obnoxious and annoying.
Just be sure to actually listen to what we have to say (you don't need to change you mind though) and respond appropriately and you'll be fine. If you just talk past us and accuse us of things we don't actually believe, yeah, you're going to get downvotes, same as if you tried that on any social media platform.
I kind of just wandered in here from /all and didn’t realize what kind of sub this was before I started commenting, lol. Very interesting to read though
At least you bothered to actually check the sidebar and work out what sub this was before commenting. A lot of these people can't even be bothered to do that.
- Show
I’m on Memmy but it just shows “no description”. I kind of got the vibe here by seeing the icon and the comments. It’s cool though - good to see insights from different viewpoints rather than those from my own usual haunts. That’s the cool part about Lemmy, lots of different groups on here just doing their thing without much blind bigotry.
I understand that the pro China sentiments are strong here and I’m going to be downvoted
Hexbear doesn't have downvotes, so you'll just get a bit of flak from the much less active lemmygrad (no shade to them)
I’m sitting at -6 on my first comment and -1 on second apparently. It’s fine.
I'm upvoting you! It's a fair point and a reasonable thing to point out.
I'm sure the lobbyists and congresscritters in DC have a more realist view in private. Doesn't really change what sort of sentiment they push to the masses.
The difference is the U.S. started it, and for no real legitimate reason, other than profit and domination. When China does it, it's revenge/retribution/just desserts.
and the biggest thing is the US and its cronies are actively in charge, they've made the world this way
I’m not sure there’s any way to claim “who started it” and I really don’t think it matters whether it was China, France, USA or Russia. It was inevitable and will always exist.
American biotechnology companies commercially exploit genetic resources obtained at low cost from developing countries and apply for patent protection, so as to gain huge profits.
Meanwhile on CNN today: "China’s sitting on a goldmine of genetic data – and it doesn’t want to share" https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/11/china/china-human-genetic-resources-regulations-intl-hnk-dst/index.html
That headline makes it sounds like the US wants to grind the Chinese populace up into genetic slop and use it to produce soylent green or something.
Or the US want to use that data to create bioweapons to target specific peoples, sounds about right since they absorbed not only nazi scientists but also members of the infamous unit 731 post ww2
I think that sort of dystopian sci-fi tech is completely unfeasible though. People just aren't different enough genetically (and our immune systems aren't different enough) that any attempt at creating a supervirus that infects only a single ethnic group just flat out wouldn't work, and would just target people indiscriminately.
Yeah, but the way defense procurement works they could probably make billions of dollars on the grift that they can make a genetically targetable virus. Just look at those ridiculous Littoral Combat Ships that are being decommissioned only a few years after rolling out of the shipyard.
Good thing the WTO is fair and balanced and will definitely act on this information in good faith and the US's credibility and standing will be damaged!
This is a bit too on the nose:
Under this Act, if the country does not operate on market principles of cost and pricing structures, and sales of merchandise in such country do not reflect the fair value of the merchandise, such country shall be determined as a “NME country”. [...] But in November 2022, the U.S. changed its determination and considered Russia a “NME country”. [...] In October 2017, the DOC re-determined China as a “NME” [...]
"Non-market Economy"
It's a coincidence this time around
Yeah I knew what it meant but holy shit that’s one you should reword to get a different acronym
But why pick those words as opposed to a "controlled market economy" or something?
Red scare propaganda. "Non Market Economy" sounds like communism. And the acronym is just a bonus.
