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Nah, but Skyrim isn't objectively bad, it's just subjectively bad depending on who you ask and what they're defining bad as. It doesn't mean someone else shouldn't play it though. Media criticism and "nobody should ever enjoy this ever" are two different things entirely.
Like, if sapient aliens exist they would be subjects, and if for whatever reason they found The Room to be a profound piece of cinema, that would be a subjective opinion as valid as any other.
People should play what they want, but I also think humans kinda suck at understanding what they want, and will often consume (subjectively) inferior things cuz they don't know any better. Hearing someone else articulate why they don't/do like something can help people understand their own tastes better and seek out more genuinely fulfilling things.
It's kind of like how a lot of people were totally happy eating McDonalds till their one friend bullied them into trying Thai food.
I think my position is simple: I try new things that I haven't encountered or tried yet to see if I enjoy them. I'm kind of xenophile and hedonistic at heart, so craving new experiences, tastes, etc, is important to me.
i wrote out my whole thing but basically i agree with you but that also doesn't mean it isn't reasonable to be happy if someone else is happy with skyrim or whatever. i would still smile if my friend had a blast having mcdonalds with me even if i know that they might like thai food better. plus bullying someone INTO trying something is different than bullying them OUT of doing something. i mean shame is obviously a very ineffective motivator but i'm going to assume "bullying" just means general encouragement. so in that case with the thai food and the mcdonalds, i think the mindset is less "mcdonalds is shit and they should like thai food instead" but more "i know they'll like thai food and i want them to try it because of that and if mcdonalds is or isn't dropped due to that i don't care"
i dont think joy is really min-maxable in a uniform way even though it can sometimes change in amount for someone
i just realized this is an extremely roundabout way for me to point out that someone's subjective taste can just happen to be exactly (or close to exactly) skyrim or any other media you or i would consider flawed. and also that people having sub-optimal fun is ok but also that most people enjoy "upgrading" their fun sometimes too hence media criticism and all that. people are weird
sorry about the rambly wall of text. i am very tired.
We already did this bit, and it wasn't even that infamous just really dumb ngl. Me when I criticise a thing online and people start questioning whether my words are describing the truest of realities.
It doesn't mean someone else shouldn't play it though.
There was a lot of weird projected ideas like this, but not only did I never say nobody should play it or express any disdain for its players, I had a couple very cool back n forths with people who play it. Was productive tbh. If I was like, mad people were playing Skyrim or thought nobody should play it, I'd have died mad long ago.
Also sorry for bringing up the game never again lol
(Glad you arent mad ) But it seems weird to just bring up objective and subjective badness, or the concept nobody should ever play the game then? Only steam forum ranters say this I think.
Nah, I mean it somewhat seriously. Unless the media is problematic in some way, like Harry Potter, people should be allowed to enjoy even the shittiest movies or games. Of course, you can criticize media, but don't try to take away people’s fun with bad things. I'm aware some people tie their self-worth to their media consumption, but you shouldn't do that as a leftist I think. If I believe Shrek 2 is the greatest movie of all time what harm am I exactly doing?
Nah, but Skyrim isn't objectively bad, it's just subjectively bad depending on who you ask and what they're defining bad as. It doesn't mean someone else shouldn't play it though. Media criticism and "nobody should ever enjoy this ever" are two different things entirely.
I'd argue no media is OBJECTIVELY bad.
Like, if sapient aliens exist they would be subjects, and if for whatever reason they found The Room to be a profound piece of cinema, that would be a subjective opinion as valid as any other.
People should play what they want, but I also think humans kinda suck at understanding what they want, and will often consume (subjectively) inferior things cuz they don't know any better. Hearing someone else articulate why they don't/do like something can help people understand their own tastes better and seek out more genuinely fulfilling things.
It's kind of like how a lot of people were totally happy eating McDonalds till their one friend bullied them into trying Thai food.
I think my position is simple: I try new things that I haven't encountered or tried yet to see if I enjoy them. I'm kind of xenophile and hedonistic at heart, so craving new experiences, tastes, etc, is important to me.
i wrote out my whole thing but basically i agree with you but that also doesn't mean it isn't reasonable to be happy if someone else is happy with skyrim or whatever. i would still smile if my friend had a blast having mcdonalds with me even if i know that they might like thai food better. plus bullying someone INTO trying something is different than bullying them OUT of doing something. i mean shame is obviously a very ineffective motivator but i'm going to assume "bullying" just means general encouragement. so in that case with the thai food and the mcdonalds, i think the mindset is less "mcdonalds is shit and they should like thai food instead" but more "i know they'll like thai food and i want them to try it because of that and if mcdonalds is or isn't dropped due to that i don't care"
i dont think joy is really min-maxable in a uniform way even though it can sometimes change in amount for someone
i just realized this is an extremely roundabout way for me to point out that someone's subjective taste can just happen to be exactly (or close to exactly) skyrim or any other media you or i would consider flawed. and also that people having sub-optimal fun is ok but also that most people enjoy "upgrading" their fun sometimes too hence media criticism and all that. people are weird
sorry about the rambly wall of text. i am very tired.
I think some media is probably objectively bad. Like Tucker Carlson is objectively bad. But mostly yeah
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We already did this bit, and it wasn't even that infamous just really dumb ngl. Me when I criticise a thing online and people start questioning whether my words are describing the truest of realities.
There was a lot of weird projected ideas like this, but not only did I never say nobody should play it or express any disdain for its players, I had a couple very cool back n forths with people who play it. Was productive tbh. If I was like, mad people were playing Skyrim or thought nobody should play it, I'd have died mad long ago.
Also sorry for bringing up the game never again lol
I wasn't mad at you or saying you were saying nobody should play Skyrim
(Glad you arent mad
) But it seems weird to just bring up objective and subjective badness, or the concept nobody should ever play the game then? Only steam forum ranters say this I think.
It’s bad
So Is Transformers by Michael Bay but I had fun watching that as a teenager. What now tankie ?
I had fun watching it too but then they replaced sweaty Megan Fox with some upscale model who would never date a bozo like Sam
Sam Seder ?
this but kind of unironically
Nah, I mean it somewhat seriously. Unless the media is problematic in some way, like Harry Potter, people should be allowed to enjoy even the shittiest movies or games. Of course, you can criticize media, but don't try to take away people’s fun with bad things. I'm aware some people tie their self-worth to their media consumption, but you shouldn't do that as a leftist I think. If I believe Shrek 2 is the greatest movie of all time what harm am I exactly doing?