Linky: https://archive.is/bqfe6 and https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/08/why-progressives-should-actually-want-more-police-surveillance.html
The whole article is and
Linky: https://archive.is/bqfe6 and https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/08/why-progressives-should-actually-want-more-police-surveillance.html
The whole article is and
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Every developed country has this info on it's citizenry, heck most developing countries these days do to. You're arguing basic bureaucracy is totalitarian.
And most countries have some means of keeping track of this too if they suspect you're guilty of a crime. Again, describing this as some unique "evil" makes no sense, any sort of state administration does this, you have to prove it's frequently being deployed in a extremely malicious way before you can argue any state is more "authoritarian" or whatever than any other.
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Okay I take it you're an anarchist then.
Fine, but then you really shouldn't be focusing on China. The US is just as guilty of this, more so I'd argue, especially if we're not just arguing domestically. Whatever country you're from is also guilty of this. Every country is.
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The things you listed are so mundane it seems totally asinine to focus your criticism on China. You can literally say this about fucking Andorra 🇦🇩
It's like if you said you hated Bob but when I asked you why you listened a bunch of flaws most humans have and when I point that out to you, you retort "well I hate most people". Okay, why are we discussing Bob then?
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Because there's already an entire media empire dedicated to shitting on Bob. One person says something mildly positive about Bob yet you feel the need to jump in and reiterate the shit the media already tells us despite it being totally pointless.
I'm trying to get you to question whether you ACTUALLY hate all states equally or if certain media forces have gotten you to focus needless ire towards particular ones while giving only token criticisms of others.
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As someone who lives in the west I have barley any exposure to Chinese media.
And criticisms of the west focus on real shit we're doing. Like Soviet propaganda was just, "look at what they're doing, its bad". Whereas our propaganda has to make shit up. Chinas criticisms of the west are far more likely to be real than ours of them
Honestly most of the news that gets posted here is from western sources anyway, the evidence the west is bad is so strong even western media can't really hide it. Obscuring it really relies on insisting other people are worse.
CGTN is communizing the poor western children and their colonial subjects.
What is good/worth preserving about "the west"?
Who gives a fuck, cry like more of a lib about it
Nothing brings me greater pleasure than the knowledge that, barring the west starting nuclear war, China is just going to advance more and more exponentially every year and folks like you are just gonna have to invent new ways to mald over it.
this is the worst bait account I've ever seen, please try to do better next time, it's embarrassing.
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what is the practical application of that information? it's to keep society safe and functioning. in an ideal world, this wouldn't be necessary but china has 1.3 billion people and remains one of the safest nations on earth for a reason. you don't see police constantly brutalizing people there, because their network of cameras and identification means that unless something presents an immediate threat, they can typically just let the person do their shit and then catch them at home. you can't drive ten miles in america without seeing someone pulled over by police for some minor traffic violation- is that freedom, was that interaction necessary? what about the odds of that interaction escalating to the citizen being murdered by police? this isn't an issue in china because firstly the police are trained and secondly many of those interactions are entirely eliminated
america knows all that about me too but i can still get mugged walking a mile to the gas station and i'll still see 5 homeless people along the way and multiple cops just posted up waiting to fuck with someone
i used to be an anarchist. idealistic thinking isn't realistic.
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brother then you know what to do because your ass is living under a dictatorship of the borugeoisie
I do get politically active btw, I just want neither a political party nor the borgeoisi rule me
Well guess what buttercup, you're going to have to grow the fuck up and learn how politics works because even under whatever anarcho-whateverist bullshit you dream up you're still going to be subject to the rules of the dominant parties.
You're a liberal larping as an anarchist if you think anarchy means "i'm totally free from the burdens of what others want"
You don't want to be ruled, then you're a libertarian. Hence the "live free or die" slogan from the American imperialists in your header image
Call yourself a syndicalist, but no unified council of syndicates to run a group? Best of luck
thanks
The same way any country deals with journalist entering restricted areas??
and all of them are fucking wrong
No way you just linked to a CNN dipshit shoving his way through a restricted area while speaking only English. Your "journalists" don't exist they're Western chauvinistic propagandists. Do some self crit and explore the resources hexbear shares on modern China.
sorry, i wasn't aware i was talking to a vaushite.
I had to look this up
now that you know what that is, consider what views you're espousing if you are indistinguishable from them. it's western propaganda, complete blindness to your own material reality, anarkiddie bullshit. "i'm not an idealist, but i'd rather die than live in a dictatorship". comrade what do you think capitalism is? it doesn't matter which supposedly superior western nation you live in, you are in a capitalist dictatorship- refer to what i said about "complete blindness to your own material reality".
your post literally reads like "i can go to walmart and buy a tv on credit, how can you say i'm not free?"
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yeah, that's not a bad thing. i really think you have a lot of unlearning of western propaganda to do.
comrade, i mean no disrespect- i was an anarchist when i was a baby leftist as well. in an ideal world, and purely speaking ideologically, i am an anarchist. i would love if the world operated entirely free of any sort of state, if any sort of hierarchy was able to be examined and dismantled if need be
but i realize that the modern world is much more complicated than the answers anarchism provides
the only way to achieve communism, even if we're talking entirely stateless communism, is to seize the state and use it as a vehicle to enact the will of the revolution. i am genuinely curious how you expect it to be done otherwise? let's say antifa just shot joe brandon and took over the white house. okay, now what? they just declare amerikkka is over? come on.
I'm an anarcho syndicalist, I belive that we can build workers syndicates and communities where the workers own the means of production and only when we have those organisations we can even begin to think of overthrowing the state
okay, simply put; the state is entirely controlled by capital. we live in a dictatorship of capital- this is a basically irrefutable fact for any sect of leftist.
with that being said, let's say you do start taking over workplaces, building communities around those workplaces which the workers took over; what is the state going to be doing while all of this happens? even if you take over by entirely 'legitimate' electoral and peaceful means.
amazon workers can't even go on strike without someone getting their skull cracked. you can't demonstrate against genocide without being beaten half to death.
what has the state done in the past when workers even went on strike?
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Then they bring their bombs and cops and kill you for being a terrorist, what then
okay, but that isn't happening nor will it ever happen. this is why anarkiddies are called that. someone presents you with an actual situation which does happen (workers try to strike, get their skulls cracked) and you respond "hypothetically if i were doing MY anarchist communism i would bring a gun to the strike". come on.
Advancing standards of living by leaps and bounds? Taking literal dirt farming feudal serfdoms to literally the world's first space power in the span of literally 4 decades? Ending cyclical patterns of famine that have occurred for thousands of years, but never again under communism?
Oh man so awful
You're the kinda guy who would hear about China building "ghost cities" and just believe the lies that they're building useless shit to juice their GDP, aren't you
Hahahahahaha oh fuck that was hilarious, thanks for posting. "Sirs! They are manhandling me! I say! We are in a public space and they are manhandling me!" Fuckin hilarious, I got no sympathy for CNN anglo propagandists trying to muscle their way into that space when they don't even speak Mandarin and they're obviously there to do a hit piece. Cry about it
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Then why are you alive right now?
because I will fight against capitalism, imperialism, dictators and monarchs util my last dieing breath
also what I meant with that is that I'll rather die than live in a dictatorship and not do anything to destroy it's chains of opression
How are you fighting the chains of oppression by complaining about a country you don't even live in on the internet?
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The media bombards us with "China bad" shit 24/7. Even if it is actually as bad as you say you're personal efforts are such a tiny contribution they're effectively useless. Your efforts would likely be better spent trying to inform people about other bad countries that the western media focuses far far less on, or actively downplay their badness. Like Israel for example.
do you think the average Chinese person would benefit from having their state overthrown or that they'd even want that? The Chinese state is highly popular among Chinese citizens. It regularly has an approval rating of above 90%. To what end would China benefit from having a different arrangement?
China's people are huwhite CNN reporters with British accents
They can and do. Free speech is a bad thing, especially in a nation under siege from the Great Satan. I especially want you and people with your views to have their free speech suppressed.
Unironically believing this . It took over a year of protests and riots all over the Great Satan to get one (1) pig to get anything more than a slap on the wrist!
Fake news.
LIBERALISM
zhenli explains anarchism's reliance on idealism (cw: critical discussion of tendencies)
[...]
Second, it ignores the actual, real distinction between Marxists and anarchists, which is centralization and decentralization, originating from differing views on historical materialism and idealism.
Anarchists want to break up society into decentralized units, they see the centralization tendency of capitalist society as a bad thing and want to smash it and build an entirely new and different society out of a void, while Marxists see the development of capitalist society as in fact laying the foundations for socialism which it will be built on top of, i.e. it will be centralized.
Bukharin explained this brilliantly a century ago.
It is very important to understand that anarchists aren't simply Marxists who want to get to statelessness faster. They are in many ways the polar opposite of Marxists, the gulf that separates Marxists from anarchists is just as large as pretty much any other ideology.
Anarchists reject historical materialism and view history through an idealist lens, believing that all new societies are "conjured out of a void" as Bukharin put it, and thus they believe this new society can be anything they want it to be, if they can imagine it then it can be implemented.
Marxists on the other hand, with a historical materialist analysis, see new systems as inherently being built upon new conditions brought into existence by the old system, i.e. socialism cannot be anything we want it to be but must be built upon foundations created by capitalism itself.
Hence, Marxists see the centralization tendency of capitalism as the basis for what socialism will be built upon, while anarchists not only do not hold this view, but they view the conditions capitalism is bringing forth as a bad thing that must be entirely destroyed.
[...]
I found YouTube links in your comment. Here are links to the same videos on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Link 1:
Link 2:
Link 3:
“see see pee”
shut up w ur 4chan ass profile
"the Joe Biden knows everything about you, your name, face, age, money in your bank account, where you spend your time, where you have been to, etc. I don't think you could call that good use of surveillance."
America's surveillance apparatus is leagues more brutal than any Chinese system but USians don't hear about it because it's being field tested in the genocide of Palestine and hunting down migrants at the border. It's also incredibly fucked, your 9 digit SSN is basically used for anything govt. related and can basically be considered your state mandated government ID from birth. So much of American data is held up in data brokers who will literally sell your personal info (enough for anyone to impersonate you) to the government or to other companies, the 3 letter agencies literally hoard petabytes of American data they gathered after 9/11 when the US basically became what the liberal imagination thinks China is.
China has spent decades perfecting their surveillance apparatus and yet it's not the extrajudicial murder, school shooting, prisoner capital of the world.
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True you can protest and be blinded by rubber bullets, run over by vigilante trucks, and be ignored by legislators. Freedom baby~
i'd like to introduce you to a bunch of my comrades who protested the genocide of Palestinians on college campuses
i want you to tell them they're very free to protest in the USA and their efforts have viable effects. You might have to do it in person since some of them still can't see through the pepper spray and can't hear very well from their head injuries
Which country do you live in?
If it's the US I'd suggest you focus on criticizing your own country first.
If it's another country the US probably has far more geopolitical influencer over your country than China does, so you're still using your time better criticizing them.
both the US and China have to much influence on my country and all of europe, both are bad and I criticize them both
If you live in Europe I highly doubt China has as much influence on your country than the US has.
CPC. Show some respect for the country's actual title
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Why bother making a hexbear account when you're just going to be banned for being a liberal
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Kaiserreich detected, also it's liberalism regardless
Ogey...
Just to ask, do you believe in countries like Vietnam, Laos, or Cuba, or even Bolivia
If you can't, then even tho you may not a liberal, economically, or culturally, I think you are a liberal at heart, when it comes to foreign policy... aka you tow the U.S state department's line, when it comes to 'good' and 'bad' countries
I'm afraid because of such matters, you might get banned over this
I'm new here, but I didn't do anything wrong I think, I just stated my opinion
If I did something wrong please enlighten me
As far as I'm concerned, the community has somewhat of an anti-imperialist or 'anti-western' stance, which then extends to a concept of critical support for global south countries
Critical support, which is public support for an anti-imperialist, if not socialist nation-state, despite one's personal criticism of such (eg. Venezuela, a GLOBAL_SOUTH socdem state, with potential revolutionary energy; remember, it's not necessarily under one party of PSUV than it is, as a popular front)
(You ought to remember Chomsky did support some socialist and socdem states in the Global South, right?)
My question is a litmus test
If you can't sympathize with even one existing socialist state like Cuba, against America, who has committing economic blockades against such countries, then welp...
You can choose lemmy.ml, lemm.ee, midwest.social or any other social media to find other like-minded leftists, who don't necessarily focus on such topics...
Lmfao imagine equating communists with capitalists and dictators and saying it doesn't make a difference, are you a lib?
I said CALL them what you like, the CPC always brands itself as communist, while funding capitalist privately owned cooperations
Would you support the vast number of state owned enterprises in China?
I would, if the people actually had to say something about it, but guess what, they don't
You know this how? Have you been there?
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Know what? I didn't make any claim, you did.
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You believe it's a one-man dictatorship entirely disconnected from the workers, which IMO requires more proof than the opposite. Believing the reverse is simply easier because of being born an American
I made no such claim, I just asked you why you were so confident you were right, and what evidence you had for your claim, that's not claiming you're wrong.
pure western chauvinism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeyXMvdHSjU
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
They need to make money so they can continue to raise the standard of living in their country. Their capitalists don't control their society nor do they have any power to influence the government. How else do you get to socialism without doing socialist things?
yeah, problem being that you can't trust capitalists and they'll just put that money in their own pockets
Which is why China has raised the standard of living steadily over the last few decades? I mean where else do you think they got the money to build the cities, infrastructure, power plants, etc.? What actually do you know about China beyond "they have capitalists so they're bad"?
would post China Has Billionaires but I am in despair so I feel this person won't read it, and I'm so fucking tired of getting an instantaneous dismissive reply that indicates they didn't even click on the fucking link
EDIT: I wound up posting it in another part of this thread with a couple other links for them to ignore. I wish there was a way to say "hide replies to this post" so I could avoid seeing a handwaving liberal reply three minutes later
EDIT2: guess I'm just going through some shit right now sorry
It's such a good essay, I didn't even need convincing before because the proof was always there but after reading it completely makes sense. Yeah like obviously capitalism bad but the government isn't run by capitalists like they are in the West, it's a matter of transitioning (if you read theory you'd know this), and they are indeed on that path. What's crazy to me is that they'll probably achieve their goals faster as the planning gets better.
capitalists don't have that much power in the gov. that's the difference
they forced tencent to donate hundreds of millions (billions now) of dollars
read this https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/
posting this here for those who might click on these links and read
from https://redsails.org/why-marxism/
from https://redsails.org/brainwashing/
from https://redsails.org/china-has-billionaires/
Don't despair when the lib you're talking to ignores your well thought out response. Instead, look at the people lurking and reading the thread and not commenting, and what they see. They see you provide thoughtful and insightful statements backed up with evidence, only for the lib to either ignore it entirely or just dismiss it with a handwave (and obviously not even reading it). Even if someone agrees with the lib and not you, it still isn't a good look for their "team" to be so smugly and proudly ignorant.
Said lib has taken to posting about those mean hexbear tankies all over the anti-communist parts of Lemmy (and also for some reason lemmy.ml's anarchism comm). This was never about good faith discussion and all about getting in a pissing contest here then whining about it elsewhere.
Yeah, they show up every now and then so they can whine about "censorship" or mean evilbad tankies. It's so pathetic.
the last three or four weeks have been fucking ghastly. we are ruled by demons
Truly, and it's mind blowing to see people run defence for them, insisting that those that oppose them are the real demons, while claiming that they oppose the powers that be are "just as bad" despite never actually willing to commit to their own claims about what they would do if they were living in the exact situation they claim to despise.