Permanently Deleted

  • GrouchyGrouse [he/him]
    ·
    2 months ago

    White people finding some kind of middle ground between racist "the red man is a barbaric heathen" and (different but also racist) "actually the natives were hippie noble savages" challenge: impossible.

    After roughly 1600 it was virtually impossible for Europeans to encounter natives as they had existed before Columbus. Their reality was downright apocalyptic in some cases because of the spread of disease that preceded European explorers and settlers, sometimes by almost a century.

    Imagine if the natives had made ships and sailed to Northern Italy and made landfall in the immediate aftermath of the Black Death or landed in Germany during the height of the 30 Years War. They'd have records about how wild shit was, too. "They don't trust outsiders, they're superstitious, and I saw them stab a guy." No shit, you're seeing them during a time of world-historic tumult and upheaval.

    And that's not even touching the whole colonization, displacement, and active genocide parts of the equation.

    • StalinStan [none/use name]
      ·
      2 months ago

      It is wild that one of the biggest turns of world history seems to be that my ancestors were so filthy there existence was a bioweapon.

      • GrouchyGrouse [he/him]
        ·
        2 months ago

        The Europeans weren't as unhygienic as the hyperbole would have you believe, it's more that they had diseases that jumped from domestic animals to humans that the natives had never encountered. The whole idea that medieval peasants were rolling in mud and manure all day isn't accurate. They didn't take baths often because baths are impractical. They took sponge baths. They didn't wash their outer clothes but not many people wash their winter coat today, either. They'd wash the linen underclothes they wore under the outer garments. I mean, cleanliness to be desired, and other regions and cultures at the time were bigger on the hygiene thing, but they weren't all looking like Pigpen from the Peanuts comics.

        They were probably filthy as shit when they arrived, though. Months on a boat with a bunch of people and live animals. Just big wooden petri dishes at that point. Yuckers.

        • StalinStan [none/use name]
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          Fair, I was speaking too loosely They were very cleain. Using ash to make a strong simple soap they were simply riddled with pestilence while being surprisingly tidy

          • GrouchyGrouse [he/him]
            ·
            2 months ago

            They still did some really gross things, like centuries of medical practitioners deciding hand washing was optional, and dying of dysentery constantly whenever they gathered into armies.

            It is interesting how the people in the industrial era were probably dirtier and in worse health than their medieval forebears because they were all clustered in cities drinking poo water and breathing fumes and smog which impacted respiratory health so tuberculosis was having a dance party in everyone's lungs.

            duck-dance

    • Boredom [none/use name]
      ·
      2 months ago

      The apocalypse had happened even before the mongols arrived, the aztecs were basically a horde from the north that ordered the destruction of all historical records that disagreed with their mythology and worship of the war God. That's part of why the other groups initially thought the Spaniards were gods coming back to save them.

      • heggs_bayer [none/use name]
        ·
        2 months ago

        Various indigeonous South American groups: "You've freed us!"

        The Spanish: "Oh, I wouldn't say 'freed', more like 'under new management'."

        • Boredom [none/use name]
          ·
          2 months ago

          You're talking about the lowland guarani after being mistreated by the incase, not the tarascans after being mistreated by the mexica

    • UlyssesT
      cake
      hexagon
      ·
      edit-2
      3 days ago

      deleted by creator