China campits exist. There are fantastic sources of information about China who are not even remotely Marxist and just support China for whatever reason. I am wondering what percentage of China supporters do you think that applies to?
Does it matter? Whatever someone's reasons are for supporting China, the important thing is that they do. Results are what matter. The fact that millions of people around the world have a positive view of a prospering socialist state that is currently the biggest threat to the global imperialist hegemony is conducive to our goals as Marxist-Leninists and anti-imperialists.
In general i care less about why someone does something and more that they do it.
This, 100%. Hell, I don't care if someone gets some of the facts wrong about China (though I'd try to correct them) if they can get the simple understanding- that China is presenting a better system, that China and BRICS is presenting a viable peace and prosperity for the world, that it genuinely is "the west" (the deranged, corrupt, and warmongering hegemonic regimes of the west) vs. "the rest" (of humanity, of all those with even the slightest speck of decency in them).
People don't need to be a Marxist-Leninist to understand this. Just like people don't need to be a Marxist-Leninist to realize that genocide is an unacceptable evil (or to understand after looking at the facts just how ridiculous and hypocritical the west's slander against China is in this regard), that the present world system is incredibly unequal and corrupt, that people have their basic material needs (and China is meeting those needs to such an extent that it should serve as a lesson to anyone with basic sense), and that the western elites' march towards WW3 trying to maintain world hegemony is a terrible (and utterly inhumane) idea.
I agree with your conclusion very, very much.
This wasn't meant to call anyone out but just genuine curiosity. Some of the sources I get news about China from are definitely not supporting China for any reason other than it's not the US. (Inside China Business is a great channel but he literaly thinks China is being rewarded by God for being the largest Christian nation and America is being punished for abandoning the faith).
Some of the sources I get news about China from are definitely not supporting China for any reason other than it’s not the US.
Is it that, or are they supporting China because it's not the US and it's playing an instrumental role in undermining US domination of global south countries?
What I mean to say is if those channels understand that the US is evil, then they have a commendable reason for supporting China.
he literaly thinks China is being rewarded by God [...] and America is being punished
The fact is that China is on a rapid upward trajectory and the US empire on the opposite. People of all kinds of ideological inclinations and world views (except perhaps for a few deeply delusional diehard liberals) can see this.
It is natural to look for explanations when faced with profound changes in the world, and when someone lacks a materialist understanding of reality but is instead deep in the grasp of idealist magical thinking, they come up with all kinds of kooky ideas. The takeaway here is that even people who are as far removed from reality as these weirdos can see which way the wind is blowing. I take that as a very good sign.
That’s no reason not to post Inside China Business’/Kevin Walmsley’s videos, though, right? We post all sorts of stuff from all sorts of liberals, but we’re not endorsing their liberalism.
Now I wonder if your saying “this entire site is filled with ultras, third-worldists, and campists” wasn’t based on a misconceived notion that to post content from someone is to subscribe to or endorse their worldview.
i watch kevin walmsley for the info he provides. i (and everyone else) can think for themselves haha. the info he shares is good but his conclusions and biases are wrong and can easily just be ignored.
as for my other comment, i do still believe that and i have actual evidence of it now.
None. Camping isn't really legal in China so you can't really camp there. I don't think it's a full on arrest-able offence, but you will be told that you have to leave if you pitch a tent out in the woods, and there are no campgrounds or anything like that as far as I know.
I can still go out and explore deep parts of nature though right?
Oh yeah! In fact, from what I've seen, it's a lot better than the west, in my country, most national parks and things are fenced off, but in China you're allowed to just freely explore places (from what I understand, camping is discouraged to avoid disrupting the natural environment, but you're still allowed to visit it.)
This channel is great if you want to see someone's experiences in rural China: https://www.youtube.com/@littlechineseeverywhere
To put it into perspective, in Vietnam the communist party has about 5,300,000 people in it as of 2021, the womens union has 13 million members.
Its similar in China, people trust the government so instead tend to focus on advancing sector rights rather than party politics, think student/workers/womens unions.
CPC has almost 100 million members. Are they China campists, Marxist-Leninists, or both?
I'd argue that of the international Communist movement, the majority of party members are Chinese.
And the All-China Federation of Trade Unions is larger, 300 million.
Are they China campists, Marxist-Leninists, or both?
Its always going to be a spectrum, there will be everything from liberals to ultras residing in it, ML with reference to historic Chinese socialism is clearly the dominant ideology however.
CPI has 650k members, CPI(M) has 100k members.
CPC is the largest Communist Party in the world.
Sorry you're right, edited my orginal comment not sure why I mixed that up.
When I was studying Standard Chinese I was talking to my tutor about the youth organization and he said it's basicall required to be a member to qualify for state assistance. Kind of like a formality like selective service is in the US. So for that org I would guess about 99% of the people are not ardent MLs.
You also bring up a good point that was really matters is if the public support the party and if the party is supporting the people.
I don't think slur is the appropriate word to use here.
There are people who simply support China because it isn't the US. For example, one of the best sources for economic news about China is Inside China Business. He lives in China and supports China but he literally thinks that the reason for China's success is that God is rewarding them for being the largest Christian nation and punishing the US for abandoning the faith. I don't know what other word to describe this guy and people like him as.The only time I see this term being used it when Trotskyists run out of road and have nothing else to say. Then they apply it incorrectly as a mindless slur. I don't see it applying to the Inside China Business guy. I don't know what you call him, a religious nut? A right winger?
There are people who simply support China because it isn’t the US.
good start
A good share I think. Cannot give you an estimate though.
I think it's probably less than half. Some of the big names who make their living talking should be thought of skepitcally but as long as they support outcomes we want it doesn't matter too much.
Not sure if what I said makes sense tho
Campist is a difficult word, given its association with board collapse on Leftypol.
Moreover, you make it difficult for me to try to argue for a more balanced and critical take on China (i.e, avoiding over-idealization that will lead to disapointment on encountering realities), because this aligns with the general Western anti-China take too much.
IDK about the west, but in China yes. A lot of people put Chinese interests over international ones (advocating for exploitation of countries or conquering others (it's 2024 bro this aint hoi4)), not like the government gives a fuck about them. Of course I generally hang around the Chinese equivalent of youtube comment sections, so probably sampling bias.
That's about what I expected. It's the same in the west. Very few people are ardent neoliberals but many just support their team (if they are politically active at all).
