I think it's reasonable to want to have a space that's free from people that defend authoritarian regimes. From my perspective, at least, 196 has always been a more anarchist-oriented space, and I think it makes sense to try to preserve that.
I'd also make the distinction that they are not banned from this forum, in the same way that libs are not banned from posting on their instance -- but those that post there are generally met with hostility, and that preserves the character of their space. I don't see why we shouldn't do the same.
Not to mention that this sub is unapologetically pro LGBT while practically every authoritarian government (including particularly those that tankies support) has been anti LGBT. eg, China prohibits same sex marriage and adoption, while forcing trans people to get permission from their family to transition (spoiler alert: they ain't progressive).
Democratic socialism with actual equality for all (which goes hand in hand with the root issue socialism is supposed to solve) makes sense and is reasonable. But that's not what tankies support. They're defined by support for authoritarian states that have nothing to do with equality except pretending that they care about it.
Since June 2008, qualifying Cubans have been able to have free sex reassignment surgeries under Resolución 126 ("Resolution 126").[79][80] Opinion polling suggested the move was unpopular among the Cuban public.[81]
As many scholars suggest, the Cuban Government treats trans rights and sex reassignment surgeries as a health issue. Cuba operates under the idea that healthcare is a right to all, allowing trans people access to public health care.
That's great. Good for them. Personally, I'm a lot more amenable to supporting Cuba. While certainly still deeply imperfect, I see Cuba as largely the victim of American bullshit sanctions.
But the fact that Cuba is better doesn't change the fact that tankies regularly support China specifically. If you support two things, with one being good and one being bad, you're still supporting a bad thing. So I don't think your comment justifies support for China.
Dude. America prohibited same-sex marriage until 2015. And it was not Obama or Congress who legalized gay marriage in America, it was 9 unelected judges, by a 5-4 ruling by the way. And those same 9 unelected judges can take away Americans' right to gay marriage any time they want to. There are lawsuits in place that are trending in that direction. As if America does not have a history of anti-gay discrimination...
I'm not American you dumbfuck. And I engage in queer-left activism where I live.
How the fuck do you plan to establish a socialist regime in an imperialist world? The revolution, if it's to last, needs to be global. Even militarily capable projects like Rojava are entirely dependent on the imperialist instincts of the fucking US state department or the CCP as-is.
To claim geographical distance of human rights violations and authoritarian geopolitical interests matters in an age where it takes a few days to circle the world and all global trade in interdependent is all but identical to enabling the genocides at 'home', and tankies will get the fucking wall for it :3
I'm not assuming, I'm stating that tankies are mostly an american phenomena. And no, advocating a violent grassroots revolution is not authoritarian... have you read a book? Ever?
Not all mind you (you just grouped Cuba, Bolivia and China and you should be executed once for each of those deranged comparisons) but the people you're reffering to - the ones you think prove tankies are more than a western fad - are mostly just fascists (reffering to China specifically). Tankies are a category of external self-proclaimed socialists singing the praises of foreign fascist regimes, not the members of the regimes themselves.
Firstly, etymological fallacy.
Secondly, you're on an anarchist lemmy, do you think anyone uses the term "authoritarianism" to mean revolution?
Thirdly, while I haven't read Engels' independent work, based on the writing of adjacent authors this is absolutely does not reffer to anarchists opposing China and the like today. If you pointed Engels (or at least Marx, again) at China and said 'you did it' he would show your fucking neck a revolution.
If your country is fucked up you can go and focus on that. I'm not particularly partial to any country, but as I said, knowing people like you irl, I can bet you my left pinky toe I've done more to fix the political landscape in my immediate proximity.** The more important part to me is how incredibly interested you are in international issues, until someone suddenly brings up an issue with China, at which point it's suddenly guys America bad too **as if anyone is unaware. What are your thoughts on the Uyghur genocide? The Holodomor?
I got Vegas on the phone, I bet my first born on you finding a way to slip out of answering like the little bootlicker bitch that you are :3
And you 'being here first' makes you no less of a redditor. It's a state of mind.
Never seen anyone so proud of being a weasely bitch and dodging uncomfortable topics they know they'd get their ass stretched on. Myb a toddler but pretty sure my lil brother was better than this at that age too.
I genuinely don't know where you got 'mad' from, I enjoy every second of debate, I literally did it for sport. Smarter commie friens around me then tho. I assure you getting dunked on and flustered about your inability to adress points isn't contingent on the emotional state of the other person and I'd imagine even for terminally online trolls 'u mad?' is getting a bit tired by now.
And bud, for the last time, a revolution isn't authoritarian and neither is killing those defending the state, be they brown or brown with a thin red coat of paint. Sorry that you've been pushed by TOS-enforced lib civility politics to think this is a spicy take or 'being mad', but when rehabilitation's out of frame, all of you, assumming you are indeed a fasc like you seem to be, will catch a bullet :)
GIMME YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOLODOMOR YOU SLIPPERY GOOBER. You won't, your entire ideology is keeping your eyes shut when it's convenient. You're doing actual backflips to dodge it you cowardly fuck. Paint a jackboot red and your dumbfuck ass starts drooling.
I fully support the rights of any populace, because people aren't nation-states, you fucking dimwit. Literally the logic used by neoconservatives to argue opposing the genocide in Palestine is anti-semitic.
Sorry for any confusion... when I said you should be executed for the comparison I was doing this thing some call "a joke" but I guess if you're as much of a baby as the competency of your analysis shows, I get why expecting you to figure that out was a stretch.
That said, I'm proud of the communist tradition of putting bullets in fascist's heads, and your crying about how you think it makes me seem angry is the most liberal fucking instinct in existence. Politics is the control and manipulation of violence. If that makes you shit your pants like it seems to, I suggest you go back to some corporate TOS-controlled sm platform and cry about the scary revolutionaries and how 'punching nazis is bad, akshually ☝️🤓'.
Y'all bootlickers get really paranoid the second it's you and not marginalized peoples on the chopping block. Find a platform that doesn't allow people to be direct with language if the moment we get to adress the violence of politics non-euphamistically, you're crying to mom about how 'angry' you see us as being for seeing politics for what it is.
Anyway, thoughts on the Xinjiang genocide? And I imagine you'll tell me Prigozhin's plane crashed from god himself protecting Putin, yeah?
Your distinction really has no meaning when there are places in China where people can be openly LGBTQ same as America with the US being more actively hostile to people in most places.
I'm fine with the use of the term authoritarian if it has actual meaning, but the way it's used here it's totally context less unless you just assume whoever is saying it is saying it as a stand in for "not a Western liberal democracy".
A thing which actually cheapens a term which was meant primarily to refer to fascist dictatorships and feudal dictatorships.
East Germany was the most LGBT friendly country in the west for a lot of its existance and Cuba is the most LGBT friendly country in the world rn. Both Marxist Lenninist. China is at the same ballpark regardng LGBT rights and protections as most of its neighbours and arguably better than most of them
I think it's reasonable to want to have a space that's free from people that defend authoritarian regimes. From my perspective, at least, 196 has always been a more anarchist-oriented space, and I think it makes sense to try to preserve that.
I'd also make the distinction that they are not banned from this forum, in the same way that libs are not banned from posting on their instance -- but those that post there are generally met with hostility, and that preserves the character of their space. I don't see why we shouldn't do the same.
Not to mention that this sub is unapologetically pro LGBT while practically every authoritarian government (including particularly those that tankies support) has been anti LGBT. eg, China prohibits same sex marriage and adoption, while forcing trans people to get permission from their family to transition (spoiler alert: they ain't progressive).
Democratic socialism with actual equality for all (which goes hand in hand with the root issue socialism is supposed to solve) makes sense and is reasonable. But that's not what tankies support. They're defined by support for authoritarian states that have nothing to do with equality except pretending that they care about it.
Someone's missed the boat on Cuba's new constitution.
Just a snippet, btw:
AES literally more based than the United States.
I'll leave my emojis below:
spoiler
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That's great. Good for them. Personally, I'm a lot more amenable to supporting Cuba. While certainly still deeply imperfect, I see Cuba as largely the victim of American bullshit sanctions.
But the fact that Cuba is better doesn't change the fact that tankies regularly support China specifically. If you support two things, with one being good and one being bad, you're still supporting a bad thing. So I don't think your comment justifies support for China.
Dude. America prohibited same-sex marriage until 2015. And it was not Obama or Congress who legalized gay marriage in America, it was 9 unelected judges, by a 5-4 ruling by the way. And those same 9 unelected judges can take away Americans' right to gay marriage any time they want to. There are lawsuits in place that are trending in that direction. As if America does not have a history of anti-gay discrimination...
As opposed to the democratic political system in china I assume? I'm so fucking sick of American "leftists" simping for the boots they haven't felt.
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I'm not American you dumbfuck. And I engage in queer-left activism where I live.
How the fuck do you plan to establish a socialist regime in an imperialist world? The revolution, if it's to last, needs to be global. Even militarily capable projects like Rojava are entirely dependent on the imperialist instincts of the fucking US state department or the CCP as-is.
To claim geographical distance of human rights violations and authoritarian geopolitical interests matters in an age where it takes a few days to circle the world and all global trade in interdependent is all but identical to enabling the genocides at 'home', and tankies will get the fucking wall for it :3
deleted by creator
I'm not assuming, I'm stating that tankies are mostly an american phenomena. And no, advocating a violent grassroots revolution is not authoritarian... have you read a book? Ever?
'Also, x, lol' jfc can you go back to reddit?
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Not all mind you (you just grouped Cuba, Bolivia and China and you should be executed once for each of those deranged comparisons) but the people you're reffering to - the ones you think prove tankies are more than a western fad - are mostly just fascists (reffering to China specifically). Tankies are a category of external self-proclaimed socialists singing the praises of foreign fascist regimes, not the members of the regimes themselves.
Firstly, etymological fallacy. Secondly, you're on an anarchist lemmy, do you think anyone uses the term "authoritarianism" to mean revolution? Thirdly, while I haven't read Engels' independent work, based on the writing of adjacent authors this is absolutely does not reffer to anarchists opposing China and the like today. If you pointed Engels (or at least Marx, again) at China and said 'you did it' he would show your fucking neck a revolution.
If your country is fucked up you can go and focus on that. I'm not particularly partial to any country, but as I said, knowing people like you irl, I can bet you my left pinky toe I've done more to fix the political landscape in my immediate proximity.** The more important part to me is how incredibly interested you are in international issues, until someone suddenly brings up an issue with China, at which point it's suddenly guys America bad too **as if anyone is unaware. What are your thoughts on the Uyghur genocide? The Holodomor?
I got Vegas on the phone, I bet my first born on you finding a way to slip out of answering like the little bootlicker bitch that you are :3
And you 'being here first' makes you no less of a redditor. It's a state of mind.
deleted by creator
Never seen anyone so proud of being a weasely bitch and dodging uncomfortable topics they know they'd get their ass stretched on. Myb a toddler but pretty sure my lil brother was better than this at that age too.
I genuinely don't know where you got 'mad' from, I enjoy every second of debate, I literally did it for sport. Smarter commie friens around me then tho. I assure you getting dunked on and flustered about your inability to adress points isn't contingent on the emotional state of the other person and I'd imagine even for terminally online trolls 'u mad?' is getting a bit tired by now.
And bud, for the last time, a revolution isn't authoritarian and neither is killing those defending the state, be they brown or brown with a thin red coat of paint. Sorry that you've been pushed by TOS-enforced lib civility politics to think this is a spicy take or 'being mad', but when rehabilitation's out of frame, all of you, assumming you are indeed a fasc like you seem to be, will catch a bullet :)
deleted by creator
GIMME YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOLODOMOR YOU SLIPPERY GOOBER. You won't, your entire ideology is keeping your eyes shut when it's convenient. You're doing actual backflips to dodge it you cowardly fuck. Paint a jackboot red and your dumbfuck ass starts drooling.
I fully support the rights of any populace, because people aren't nation-states, you fucking dimwit. Literally the logic used by neoconservatives to argue opposing the genocide in Palestine is anti-semitic.
Sorry for any confusion... when I said you should be executed for the comparison I was doing this thing some call "a joke" but I guess if you're as much of a baby as the competency of your analysis shows, I get why expecting you to figure that out was a stretch.
That said, I'm proud of the communist tradition of putting bullets in fascist's heads, and your crying about how you think it makes me seem angry is the most liberal fucking instinct in existence. Politics is the control and manipulation of violence. If that makes you shit your pants like it seems to, I suggest you go back to some corporate TOS-controlled sm platform and cry about the scary revolutionaries and how 'punching nazis is bad, akshually ☝️🤓'.
Y'all bootlickers get really paranoid the second it's you and not marginalized peoples on the chopping block. Find a platform that doesn't allow people to be direct with language if the moment we get to adress the violence of politics non-euphamistically, you're crying to mom about how 'angry' you see us as being for seeing politics for what it is.
Anyway, thoughts on the Xinjiang genocide? And I imagine you'll tell me Prigozhin's plane crashed from god himself protecting Putin, yeah?
The Holodomor is a fascist myth:
https://www.villagevoice.com/in-search-of-a-soviet-holocaust/
HAHAHAHABAHABHA
I take it you did not read the article
Your distinction really has no meaning when there are places in China where people can be openly LGBTQ same as America with the US being more actively hostile to people in most places.
I'm fine with the use of the term authoritarian if it has actual meaning, but the way it's used here it's totally context less unless you just assume whoever is saying it is saying it as a stand in for "not a Western liberal democracy".
A thing which actually cheapens a term which was meant primarily to refer to fascist dictatorships and feudal dictatorships.
East Germany was the most LGBT friendly country in the west for a lot of its existance and Cuba is the most LGBT friendly country in the world rn. Both Marxist Lenninist. China is at the same ballpark regardng LGBT rights and protections as most of its neighbours and arguably better than most of them
YUP