It's pretty wild watching some people go around in circles from "We need to end the war!" "So there should be a negotiated peace?" "No, you tankie fuck, we need to crush Putler!" "So... you want to keep throwing Ukrainians in to the grinder until you run out?" "No, we need to end the war!" "So, there should be a negotiated peace?" and on and on from there until they become frustrated by your inability to understand that if they just manifest it hard enough Putler will run out of missiles and the Russian army will collapse and Ukraine will counter offense or some bs like that.
To paraphrase a Daily Show quote: “You’ve confused a negotiated settlement with always getting everything you want"
I don't know how they think this war is going to end. Anything other than a complete Russian capitulation will seem unacceptably morally compromised appeasement.
Based on absolutely no solid information I assume that Ukraine has to collapse at some point. I didn't get the impression they were doing very well, and news reports say they've been struggling to feed their guns for a long time. NATO is already losing interest and a trickle of a few tanks a year from now it's going to change the course of the war.
Their favorite argument is "the war would end if Putler just gave up and pulled his troops out"
And it's just... Yeah sure, that would be fine I guess, but there's like a zero percent chance of that happening. So if you actually want this shit to end you have to come up with a realistic solution. It's almost as if the world doesn't work on thoughts and prayers.
A strongly militarised contingent of ultranationalist groups has been in a state of war against Eastern Ukraine. They're more powerful than before, they have the backing of the state, and they've got a taste for blood.
If Putin pulled out tomorrow, the idea that they'd just demobilise and that they're wouldn't be any reprisal actions against the people in the Donbas region is just... unfathomably ignorant of recent history and the conditions in the Ukraine.
Imo there's zero chance that if Putin pulled out that we'd see an end to the war. It would simply morph back into a civil war situation again.
They'd be totally fine with that though. The media wouldn't tell them to care about it, so they wouldn't, just like they didn't in the 8 years before the SMO started.
They only care if the designated "villain of the week" is doing a bad thing, otherwise it might as well not exist to libs.
Pretty high.
They were negotiating a peacedeal that was so close Boris Johnson had to go immediately to Ukraine and stop Zelensky.
Now tell me: If large parts of a country is occupied, and those parts have voted for separation from said country, and the country is unable to continue fighting, what do you think will happen?
It's brain-melting that these people who care so deeply about the lives of Ukrainians and their right to self determination will about-face the moment that you raise the issue of the state of civil war in Eastern Ukraine was in since 2014 and the right to self-determination for people in the Donbas region.
They'll literally go out of their way to call you an apologist for Putin and shit. Like, bruh, Ukrainians have been dying for nearly a decade now and you only started giving a shit about it when the media told you to, and even then it's only a curated, selective concern for the lives of Ukrainians.
Free Hong Kong! Free Tibet! Free Hawaii!Free Puerto Rico!!Free Donetsk and Lugansk!
Not to mention that war with Russia could have easily been avoided if at any point in those 8 years of Ukraine killing civilians, it had lived up to the promise it made in Minsk and Minsk II of just giving the eastern regions autonomy and a vote on self-determination. That was always the only major demand from Russia.
Yeah, the sheer hypocrisy of the position is just disgusting. Hell, I doubt most of them even knew anything about Ukraine before this war started, except for maybe some vague "Russia stole Crimea, that bad."
"Pro-Putin" to them just means not being ok with the west sacrificing every last man women and child in Ukraine for profit. Because Putin Bad Man.
It's pretty wild watching some people go around in circles from "We need to end the war!" "So there should be a negotiated peace?" "No, you tankie fuck, we need to crush Putler!" "So... you want to keep throwing Ukrainians in to the grinder until you run out?" "No, we need to end the war!" "So, there should be a negotiated peace?" and on and on from there until they become frustrated by your inability to understand that if they just manifest it hard enough Putler will run out of missiles and the Russian army will collapse and Ukraine will counter offense or some bs like that.
To paraphrase a Daily Show quote: “You’ve confused a negotiated settlement with always getting everything you want"
I don't know how they think this war is going to end. Anything other than a complete Russian capitulation will seem unacceptably morally compromised appeasement.
Based on absolutely no solid information I assume that Ukraine has to collapse at some point. I didn't get the impression they were doing very well, and news reports say they've been struggling to feed their guns for a long time. NATO is already losing interest and a trickle of a few tanks a year from now it's going to change the course of the war.
Their favorite argument is "the war would end if Putler just gave up and pulled his troops out"
And it's just... Yeah sure, that would be fine I guess, but there's like a zero percent chance of that happening. So if you actually want this shit to end you have to come up with a realistic solution. It's almost as if the world doesn't work on thoughts and prayers.
This is also incredibly naive.
A strongly militarised contingent of ultranationalist groups has been in a state of war against Eastern Ukraine. They're more powerful than before, they have the backing of the state, and they've got a taste for blood.
If Putin pulled out tomorrow, the idea that they'd just demobilise and that they're wouldn't be any reprisal actions against the people in the Donbas region is just... unfathomably ignorant of recent history and the conditions in the Ukraine.
Imo there's zero chance that if Putin pulled out that we'd see an end to the war. It would simply morph back into a civil war situation again.
Oh yeah, I agree 100%
I was just dumbing it down to illustrate how completely lost in fantasy these people are.
They'd be totally fine with that though. The media wouldn't tell them to care about it, so they wouldn't, just like they didn't in the 8 years before the SMO started.
They only care if the designated "villain of the week" is doing a bad thing, otherwise it might as well not exist to libs.
And what's the probability of a state just giving up territory?
Pretty high.
They were negotiating a peacedeal that was so close Boris Johnson had to go immediately to Ukraine and stop Zelensky.
Now tell me: If large parts of a country is occupied, and those parts have voted for separation from said country, and the country is unable to continue fighting, what do you think will happen?
It's brain-melting that these people who care so deeply about the lives of Ukrainians and their right to self determination will about-face the moment that you raise the issue of the state of civil war in Eastern Ukraine was in since 2014 and the right to self-determination for people in the Donbas region.
They'll literally go out of their way to call you an apologist for Putin and shit. Like, bruh, Ukrainians have been dying for nearly a decade now and you only started giving a shit about it when the media told you to, and even then it's only a curated, selective concern for the lives of Ukrainians.
Free Hong Kong! Free Tibet!
Free Hawaii!Free Puerto Rico!!Free Donetsk and Lugansk!Not to mention that war with Russia could have easily been avoided if at any point in those 8 years of Ukraine killing civilians, it had lived up to the promise it made in Minsk and Minsk II of just giving the eastern regions autonomy and a vote on self-determination. That was always the only major demand from Russia.
Yeah, the sheer hypocrisy of the position is just disgusting. Hell, I doubt most of them even knew anything about Ukraine before this war started, except for maybe some vague "Russia stole Crimea, that bad."
Libs were still calling it "the Ukraine" up until a week after the invasion
It's still The Ukraine in my heart. 🥲