You have an opportunity to turn this moment into an organizing conversation with the libs in your life. I had one in this very thread.
Also I don't agree that votes are useless. If you're outside a swing state every lib in your life should vote Green or PSL to show they don't support genocide. If you're in MI, NV, PA, or other swing states those libs should vote Green or PSL to punish Democrats for literally arming a genocide. It's a good outcome for us if Trump wins one of these states by less votes than Stein + PSL combined get. Force the Dems to have to move left for once!
If you're outside a swing state every lib in your life should vote Green or PSL to show they don't support genocide. If you're in MI, NV, PA, or other swing states those libs should vote Green or PSL to punish Democrats for literally arming a genocide
I disagree. You should vote PSL ESPECIALLY if you are in a swing state.
It's a good outcome for us if Trump wins one of these states by less votes than Stein + PSL combined get. Force the Dems to have to move left for once!
That's not really going to happen, or else it would have after 2000 or 2016. Instead there was a pivot to an even more conservative Dem candidate.
They will not take us seriously for anything short of a mobilized mass movement, at least 100k people in the streets of major cities.
I'll walk 10 minutes to my polling site to leverage about 12 bytes' worth of political speech, but I'm not going to harbor any delusions that voting is a pathway to anything at all. A number on a paper about an opinion is just that, nothing more. It does not automatically convert into anything; it must be manually converted with force or threat of force.
Sure. I want to see a big number for Jill and Claudia because that number can lead to more people becoming comfortable leaving the two-party system. We need to grow as a movement and that means getting a lot of Libs deprogrammed.
Also I'm assuming most people here are voting in local elections or ballot measures. Your vote for School Board is more impactful than your vote for President. Why not give PSL a vote while you're there?
that number can lead to more people becoming comfortable leaving the two-party system.
I vote third party for that reason. I started voting third party with that expectation multiple elections ago, but I no longer have any delusion that people are going to follow the way I think just because I put it concretely.
I'm already planning on doing as you suggest, but without any belief in the consequentiality of it. Ultimately, my state will be won by a margin of 500k+ votes, and my vote for the PSL will mostly just make me feel good, and be able to say for .
As someone who voted third party in the 2016 election and watched absolutely nothing change and nothing was even learned, I'm telling you to put your hope in more productive places.
There's always a chance that it'll be interpreted as greens and psl taking votes off republicans. Then the Dems don't even have to pretend that anyone is trying to pull them left. It's never too late for horseshoe throwing time.
I'm not going to pick arguments over votes in the presidential election
I am. I want to know exactly who decided that in their personal calculus, that they could accept the genocide of another sovereign group of people if it meant the security of their own rights-- because when it's my turn on the sacrificial altar, it'll be those same coons, crackers, and assorted miscellaneous misleaders holding the knives.
I want to know who I can't trust turning my back to.
What I mean is that it's a better use of my time and energy to identify and approach people I am deeply compatible with and can build oases and operational units with, rather than getting into it with people who very clearly just in it for themselves.
You've said before that the default, especially for white and/or suburban and/or financially secure folks, is that you can't trust turning your back to them. Why rehash the rule, instead of trying to uncover the exceptions?
If there's one thing the failure of the civil rights movement taught me, it's that even the ones you think you can trust when the tide is low will show their asses the minute the waterline's two inches up the walls on Main Street.
I'd like to believe there are some that aren't outright feral ghouls; but I can't make that assertion until I've seen every last bit of ass-showing I can see. Up til now, I've operated under blanket assumption that none of them can be. Now, I want to know the exacts.
I already had this fight with the mods a long time ago; yes, Black folk have been using this as shorthand for "misleader", "minstrel", and "sellout" since Jim fucking Crow; argue with ya mama about it
I'm not going to pick arguments over votes in the presidential election, I'd be better off trying to bail out the high tide.
If voting isn't worth a whole lot, it's not worth arguing with a liberal and making them double down, because that's all that's going to come of it.
actually there is a lot of utility in finding out who are the genocidal racists in your life
You have an opportunity to turn this moment into an organizing conversation with the libs in your life. I had one in this very thread.
Also I don't agree that votes are useless. If you're outside a swing state every lib in your life should vote Green or PSL to show they don't support genocide. If you're in MI, NV, PA, or other swing states those libs should vote Green or PSL to punish Democrats for literally arming a genocide. It's a good outcome for us if Trump wins one of these states by less votes than Stein + PSL combined get. Force the Dems to have to move left for once!
I disagree. You should vote PSL ESPECIALLY if you are in a swing state.
That's not really going to happen, or else it would have after 2000 or 2016. Instead there was a pivot to an even more conservative Dem candidate.
They will not take us seriously for anything short of a mobilized mass movement, at least 100k people in the streets of major cities.
That happened in 2020 and all they did was crush the movement violently and then declare covid to be over
I would call that a periodic paroxysm of rage more than a coordinated mass movement.
I wouldn't, in part because I didn't know those words
a splosion
it a sploded
its burn down (0/5 ⭐)
Me get it
would not visit this store again
If they lose, and keep losing, because of 3rd party votes preventing them from winning close races, then they will either shift or die out as a party.
Having a chance to push the Dems left is worth a 15 minute drive to a polling site
I'll walk 10 minutes to my polling site to leverage about 12 bytes' worth of political speech, but I'm not going to harbor any delusions that voting is a pathway to anything at all. A number on a paper about an opinion is just that, nothing more. It does not automatically convert into anything; it must be manually converted with force or threat of force.
Sure. I want to see a big number for Jill and Claudia because that number can lead to more people becoming comfortable leaving the two-party system. We need to grow as a movement and that means getting a lot of Libs deprogrammed.
Also I'm assuming most people here are voting in local elections or ballot measures. Your vote for School Board is more impactful than your vote for President. Why not give PSL a vote while you're there?
I vote third party for that reason. I started voting third party with that expectation multiple elections ago, but I no longer have any delusion that people are going to follow the way I think just because I put it concretely.
I'm already planning on doing as you suggest, but without any belief in the consequentiality of it. Ultimately, my state will be won by a margin of 500k+ votes, and my vote for the PSL will mostly just make me feel good, and be able to say
for 
.
As someone who voted third party in the 2016 election and watched absolutely nothing change and nothing was even learned, I'm telling you to put your hope in more productive places.
There's always a chance that it'll be interpreted as greens and psl taking votes off republicans. Then the Dems don't even have to pretend that anyone is trying to pull them left. It's never too late for horseshoe throwing time.
I am. I want to know exactly who decided that in their personal calculus, that they could accept the genocide of another sovereign group of people if it meant the security of their own rights-- because when it's my turn on the sacrificial altar, it'll be those same coons, crackers, and assorted miscellaneous misleaders holding the knives.
I want to know who I can't trust turning my back to.
What I mean is that it's a better use of my time and energy to identify and approach people I am deeply compatible with and can build oases and operational units with, rather than getting into it with people who very clearly just in it for themselves.
You've said before that the default, especially for white and/or suburban and/or financially secure folks, is that you can't trust turning your back to them. Why rehash the rule, instead of trying to uncover the exceptions?
If there's one thing the failure of the civil rights movement taught me, it's that even the ones you think you can trust when the tide is low will show their asses the minute the waterline's two inches up the walls on Main Street.
I'd like to believe there are some that aren't outright feral ghouls; but I can't make that assertion until I've seen every last bit of ass-showing I can see. Up til now, I've operated under blanket assumption that none of them can be. Now, I want to know the exacts.
I know it doesn't mean much from a random internet white person but when the day comes I'll be on the fuckin barricades with you.
I already had this fight with the mods a long time ago; yes, Black folk have been using this as shorthand for "misleader", "minstrel", and "sellout" since Jim fucking Crow; argue with ya mama about it
EDIT: Thank you.
Oh shit you're american pharao lol! I remember you! Good to see you're still around. Thanks for the link and sharing the insight