Sam Marcy became a trot in the 1940s but then got sick of the wrecking that trots did and started the WWP in the late 50s. I honestly can't tell you the functional difference between marcyites and MLs. It probably made sense during the cold war because they were basically tankies that weren't controlled by Moscow (CPUSA got subsidized by the USSR) but I'm sure there is some obscure difference.
They are derived from the WWP, which was Marcyite, which was a Trot group run by Sam Marcy that split off from the more conventional Trotskyist SWP. WWP over time then abandoned and denounced Trotskyism. They basically aren't Trotskyists, but come from a weird Trot split that turned to supporting Stalin, supporting the crushing of the Hungarian revolution, fiercely stating that the Korean war was some sort of class war that was not imperialist, and some other takes I find pretty bad. PSL split from them in 2004, no one quite knows why (hints it was dog shit leadership and weird Iraq war takes, Gloria La Riva's faction was what became PSL).
They basically completely disown their Trotskyist origin. They at one point declared Trotsky counter revolutionary, and scrubbed all mention of him from materials. Today they are basically slowly collapsing ever since Marcy died (culty hint, one person should not be chairperson for 39 years until their death).
Here's an old email I think explaining them (I don't know much about the guy who wrote this or its veracity so ymmv):
http://www.marxmail.org/archives/january99/wwp.htm
Here's another on their situation (god the US left was in shambles in the 60s too, also wary on this one, guy is also pretty werid imo but I think this article is mostly right at least)
http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/american_left/marcy.htm
Today they are basically slowly collapsing ever since Marcy died
All I hear from members is how they're struggling to keep up with massive influxes of members and don't have the infrastructure to process them all. Do you have a source on them collapsing and not continuing to grow?
(culty hint, one person should not be chairperson for 39 years until their death).
This attitude seems unscientific and slightly lib. People shouldn't change role just because they've been in it a long time, they should only change when there is someone that will be better.
PSL is growing, WWP is not. One of their largest chapters abandoned the org in 2018.
Personally, I think rotating leadership is the best way to run an org. If after 39 years you don't find someone better than yourself at age 80, that's a problem of continuing the org.
Just for clarity, he was referring to WWP here. PSL seems to still be surging in membership, and seems to have long since completely removed any mention of Marcy in their program/literature.
The thing I heard was basically WWP leadership which was super atrophied refused to get involved in the anti war movement after the invasion of Iraq for whatever reason. Not sure beyond that.
Lol I feel like I can guess they're reasoning. "Saddam and the Ba'athists persecuted the Communists, this is an intrabourgeois conflict we have no place supporting or opposing".
Isn't PSL 4th int lineage?
Sam Marcy became a trot in the 1940s but then got sick of the wrecking that trots did and started the WWP in the late 50s. I honestly can't tell you the functional difference between marcyites and MLs. It probably made sense during the cold war because they were basically tankies that weren't controlled by Moscow (CPUSA got subsidized by the USSR) but I'm sure there is some obscure difference.
It's Trots all the way down
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They are derived from the WWP, which was Marcyite, which was a Trot group run by Sam Marcy that split off from the more conventional Trotskyist SWP. WWP over time then abandoned and denounced Trotskyism. They basically aren't Trotskyists, but come from a weird Trot split that turned to supporting Stalin, supporting the crushing of the Hungarian revolution, fiercely stating that the Korean war was some sort of class war that was not imperialist, and some other takes I find pretty bad. PSL split from them in 2004, no one quite knows why (hints it was dog shit leadership and weird Iraq war takes, Gloria La Riva's faction was what became PSL).
They basically completely disown their Trotskyist origin. They at one point declared Trotsky counter revolutionary, and scrubbed all mention of him from materials. Today they are basically slowly collapsing ever since Marcy died (culty hint, one person should not be chairperson for 39 years until their death).
Here's an old email I think explaining them (I don't know much about the guy who wrote this or its veracity so ymmv): http://www.marxmail.org/archives/january99/wwp.htm
Here's another on their situation (god the US left was in shambles in the 60s too, also wary on this one, guy is also pretty werid imo but I think this article is mostly right at least) http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/american_left/marcy.htm
All I hear from members is how they're struggling to keep up with massive influxes of members and don't have the infrastructure to process them all. Do you have a source on them collapsing and not continuing to grow?
This attitude seems unscientific and slightly lib. People shouldn't change role just because they've been in it a long time, they should only change when there is someone that will be better.
PSL is growing, WWP is not. One of their largest chapters abandoned the org in 2018.
Personally, I think rotating leadership is the best way to run an org. If after 39 years you don't find someone better than yourself at age 80, that's a problem of continuing the org.
Ahhh I see. I misread then! That makes sense and explains why I was confused.
Just for clarity, he was referring to WWP here. PSL seems to still be surging in membership, and seems to have long since completely removed any mention of Marcy in their program/literature.
Appreciated! I definitely misunderstood.
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I'm pretty curious about the Iraq war takes lol
The thing I heard was basically WWP leadership which was super atrophied refused to get involved in the anti war movement after the invasion of Iraq for whatever reason. Not sure beyond that.
Lol I feel like I can guess they're reasoning. "Saddam and the Ba'athists persecuted the Communists, this is an intrabourgeois conflict we have no place supporting or opposing".