• Libera [any]
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    edit-2
    4 years ago

    Most chocolate is made using slave labour and is not vegan.

        • crispyhexagon [none/use name]
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          4 years ago

          probably.

          but does that matter?

          like, if youre gonna guilt on people for eating their pet chickens unfertalized eggs, and are now counting human slavery as bad, how are you going to declare wage slavery morally defensible when it comes to attempting ethical consumption under capitalism?

          • the_river_cass [she/her]
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            4 years ago

            the part that doesn't make sense here is the first part...

            if youre gonna guilt on people for eating their pet chickens unfertalized eggs

            don't do this and the rest makes sense.

            • crispyhexagon [none/use name]
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              edit-2
              4 years ago

              sure, i dont disagree.

              but... if youre eating eggs from your backyard chickens and honey from the beehive you set up in your garden and drinking milk from the goat that mows your lawn or whatever and so on and so forth, uh... youre not vegan.

              like, i agree that it makes sense to avoid human suffering in the supply chain just as much as it does animal suffering, but theres still no ethical consumption under capitalism

              edit: so any supply chain you participate in is gonna be unethical to some extent

              • the_river_cass [she/her]
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                4 years ago

                right, I'm saying don't guilt people for the pet chickens thing, not "eat your pet chicken's eggs and call yourself vegan"

                • crispyhexagon [none/use name]
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                  4 years ago

                  yeah for sure

                  my point is that if you view eating a backyard chickens eggs as morally indefensible and thus dont eat them youself, but you also are aware of the human suffering implicit in any supply chain, and thus cant consume anything involving wage slavery because its also morally indefensible... wtf are you going to eat?

          • Speaker [e/em/eir]
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            4 years ago

            "as far as possible and practicable"

            Until I get my food forest going, it is impossible for me to obtain the amount of food required to live without participating in the morally indefensible slave labor supply chain. I live in a 500 square foot apartment in semi-urban hell, so my line for "possible and practicable" is "things I can get at a farmer's market or a grocery store". I attempt to avoid products with shitty practices, but when every product is owned by one of 5 conglomerates it becomes a) hard to actually track the provenance of a product or its components and b) hard to find anything that isn't exploitative.

            Human liberation is impossible without animal liberation. So long as there is one species deemed "below" humans, there will be humans that are as well.

            • crispyhexagon [none/use name]
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              4 years ago

              is it bad to murder cows and pigs so stevie o'doule can have a mcrib with bacon? yes.

              but the idea that human liberation is tied to animal liberation such that currently starving kids are held down because people are eating eggs is beyond fucking nonsense.

              there is no practicable moral difference between consuming a fungus and consuming an insect. are you holding back human liberation by eating mushrooms?

              no, obviously not.

              • Alf [any]
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                edit-2
                2 years ago

                deleted by creator

                • crispyhexagon [none/use name]
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                  4 years ago

                  i have enough stuff to feel guilty about in my life already

                  exactly.

                  my point is entirely about the fact that everyone has made choices that are morally compromising, so guilt tripping people about that shit is ridiculous.

                  if you make the choice to be vegan, awesome. but using that as an excuse to ignore human suffering, because "human liberation cant happen while we abuse animals!" is the absolute height of fart sniffing, and there is no ethical consumption under capitalism so, the veganism is absolutely still contributing to suffering.

                  some people just want to pretend theyve found a perfect solution and now have clean hands, i guess

              • Speaker [e/em/eir]
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                4 years ago

                currently starving kids are held down because people are eating eggs is beyond fucking nonsense

                Correct, which is why I didn't say that. I said we won't be liberated until all animals are. Things will (maybe) get better for humans without it, but that's not what liberation is.

                there is no practicable moral difference between consuming a fungus and consuming an insect

                Citation needed.

                are you holding back human liberation by eating mushrooms?

                If it turns out I am, I'll stop.

                • crispyhexagon [none/use name]
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                  4 years ago

                  If it turns out I am, I’ll stop.

                  and this brings us back to "and what will you eat?"

                  • Speaker [e/em/eir]
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                    4 years ago

                    Vegetables. Grains. Beans. All the other stuff I eat when I'm not eating mushrooms.