Hey everyone, I'm new to Lemmy and just starting to figure this site out. I mainly moved here because of the censorship on Reddit where they didn't publish posts that included the slightest word not allowed by their filter and they removed/blocked lots of content. I wonder if it will be somewhat better here (on the official site it says "Censorship resistant - By hosting your own server, you can be in full control of your content.").
The weird thing I saw with Lemmy was when I wanted to sign-up on the "lemmy.ml" server instance that according to the official Lemmy Servers listing page is a "A community of privacy and FOSS enthusiasts, run by Lemmy’s developers".
So I thought I try that one when it's from Lemmy's own developers. When I wanted to sign-up it required an application that you needed to fill out with one of the requirements being having to copy a sentence from the link provided which links to some article called "The Principles of Communism" which I thought was very odd for a site to do. I've never seen a site like this promoting some ideology that directly where it's part of the sign-up process to almost pledge to some political or religious ideology.
This seemed very sketchy to me. Does anyone know something about this?
it's not sketchy, it's basically a captcha to keep down automated bot sign ups, and they link to that document in particular, i assume, because the devs are marxists and figure folks who are vehemently anti-communist would refuse and thus keep down their moderation load.
Open source is inherently political and you depend on software being developed by communists. We are here to evade corporate censorship, censor reactionaries, spread agitprop, and discuss raising the quality of life of all working people.
Not just tech workers. Everyone.
To their credit, I think the Principles of Communism thing is partially meant as a floodgate, since the devs really do believe in their project and want to avoid over-centralization from everyone defaulting to one instance. They know many people will go "What the hell? No!" and go somewhere else and that's exactly the point. I'd be surprised if they really thought it would get almost anyone to engage with Marxism with the prompt, especially since you can copy the first sentence of the text and not read anything else (and even just reading it is not engaging with it). I think it's more like a little joke.
Also, copying a sentence of your choice to a pamphlet is not a pledge and I think it's silly to view it that way. If it helps, iirc, one of the sentences that appears is "No." and they will accept that as an answer.
But assuming this was "promoting an ideology directly," would you find it less sketchy for an instance to promote ideology indirectly? Because if you aren't directly doing ideology, that just means you are indirectly doing it (sometimes very deliberately). Personally, I appreciate transparency.
I think it's very funny that a lot of people will post "omg communism boogeyman? is this legal????", but they won't do a very basic introspection of ideology and online community moderation which is at the core the entire intent here.
Almost every lemmy instance has the same rule 1, those rules textually are often the same, those rules are often have the same meanings, but those rules are unevenly enforced between instances based on the ideology of that instance. That's why you can be a transphobe on .world without actually getting the same amount of mod action going your way as if you were a transphobe on hexbear/lemmy.ml/lemmygrad/blahaj.
Furthermore there's sociopolitical drama between the instances like between blahaj and hexbear on what transphobia actually is and what level of irony is allowed.
A lot of people interpret rule 1 as "don't be mean" rather than "be mean in ways that aren't racist/bigoted/sexist/transphobic/etc". Which is why they often complain that certain communities they can't post certain words, but user can dog pile them with community approved shitposting.
And then there's the lib instances who think that being mean to the Ukrainian war effort online is rule 1 and if not it's rule no disinformatsiya.
It's like when Twitter had to clarify, you cannot call for violence unless it's a call for violence that is part of the United States of America's foreign policy, because Trump as POTUS called for violence over Twitter as part of US FP. But we gotta always put the the damn commies under the microscope for making us copypasta Marxist thought.
Yeah when I joined IIRC I just had to write a sentence about why I wanted to join. The communism thing made me laugh though!
The developers of Lemmy are Communists, they don't hide this fact.
To answer your first question, there are no "free speech" instances in wide use, depending on your point of view an instance might be "censoring" or fighting "misinformation." It's up to you to pick an instance you want.
Welcome to the Fediverse! Somebody has probably told you this, but I just realized that I forgot to hit "Post" before I went to dinner. Here it is anyways.
When I wanted to sign-up it required an application that you needed to fill out with one of the requirements being having to copy a sentence from the link provided which links to some article called “The Principles of Communism” which I thought was very odd for a site to do. I’ve never seen a site like this promoting some ideology that directly where it’s part of the sign-up process to almost pledge to some political or religious ideology.
The applications and copying of a particular line is a simple form of spam prevention. The fact that the line is from “The Principles of Communism" is probably because the owners of that particular instance (who are also the main developers) are communist. I believe they also run Lemmygrad, which is full on Marxist, and one of the more commonly blocked instances. Lemmy.ml is intended to be a more mainstream instance but like much of the Fedi leans hard left.
I mainly moved here because of the censorship on Reddit where they didn’t publish posts that included the slightest word not allowed by their filter and they removed/blocked lots of content. I wonder if it will be somewhat better here
Lemmy is censorship resistant, but not censorship free. There is a difference. Censorship (or moderation, depending on your view point) happens at 3 levels, user, community, and instance. You can't do much if other users find you obnoxious and decide to block you, but if you find the moderation of a community to be over bearing and if your current instance allows, you can create your own community from your current instance and mod it how you see fit within the guidelines of your instance. If you find your instance's moderation to be overbearing, you can create your own instance and moderate it however you see fit. However, you will still be subject to the moderation policies of the communities (and their home instances) that you subscribe to.
In the Fedi you have absolute freedom of speech, but nobody is required to give you a soapbox or megaphone and nobody is required to listen to you.
Why do people keep repeating this? Every time they do someone corrects them but they seem to just assume that's what .ml is without so much as a google search about it.
To be fair, it is a large coincidence. I get that it's wrong, but it's widespread because the dots are close enough the brain closes the gap by itself.
Is it a coincidence or did they pick the Mali domain space for that reason? That's the story I heard
Wait? What's the reason? Like, the tld is for Mali, but lemmy and lemmygrad use it as "marxist-leninist" as a joke. Or at least that's what I thought the story was
They were free up until 2023
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.ml
This part is funny
Employees for the United States Armed Forces regularly misspell emails—suffixed with the .mil TLD—with .ml. In 2013, Dutch internet entrepreneur Johannes Zuurbier took on the .ml TLD. He attempted to contact the United States government about classified information being sent to army.ml and navy.ml in 2014 through Dutch diplomats.[citation needed] The contents of these emails include crew and staff lists, maps and photos of installations, naval inspection reports, and passwords. Emails that were sent to the .ml TLD include the travel itinerary of chief of staff James McConville on a trip to Indonesia in 2023, information about Kurdistan Workers' Party efforts in the United States, and Australian Department of Defence documents detailing issues with Australian F-35s. On 17 July 2023, Zuurbier's contract expired and control was reverted back to the Malian government.
This part is funny
I am sorry but you are wrong: This bit is beyond funny.
Amazing. Wish the chinese had caught that first, like they caught the secret CIA websites that allowed them to kill hundreds of spies
most people have answered your questions so i want to chime in with the information that i wish someone had told me when i first joined:
a lot of people came to lemmy from reddit like you and i both did and also mostly for the same reasons. most of them went to lemmy.world because it was the first search result on the big search engines like google & bing. those people have turned lemmy.world into a mini reddit and ended up recreating the same problems that reddit has plus more; hence the bot check that you ran into when you signed up.
the original instances of lemmy all have a strong leftist bent; i think of it like if r/politics; r/anarchy/; r/communism; r/socialism; etc. went off and created another social media platform and then started discussing everything like reddit does, but from this perspective. instances is the name given to individual servers and all those servers combined is nicknamed the lemmyverse, or lemmy, for short.
the fediverse is the nickname given to the pubg protocol that's shared between all the platforms that use it like lemmy, mastadon, kbin, threads, bluesky, etc and that means that the conversations from all of those platforms are shared amongst each other so it's possible to be on lemmy and have a conversation with someone on kbin, for example. i stick with lemmy because it's doesn't have any venture capital investors pushing the admins to enshitify it to maximize profits like has been happening to reddit and bluesky; i've been moving from one social media platform to another because of enshitification like reddit's since the 1990s (before it was called social media) so this last part matters to me a lot.
i started off on lemmy.world like most ex-redditors did and discovered that they've duplicated the censorship thing that reddit likes to do with defederations so i switched to lemmy.ml since it doesn't defederate with anybody due to fact they're the primary instance where lemmy development takes place. the federation is what makes lemmy decentralized and when you defederate; you cut yourself off from the rest of the lemmyverse, but lemmy.world and some of the other instances that got most of the ex-redditors like the star trek instance use it to try cut off content and people from the instances that they don't like and that's their right since it's their instance. lemmy is decentralized so trying to cut out people & content only serves to cut yourself off and that's intention behind the fediverse; to make it so that no power tripping mod or ban happy admin can stop the conversation like they do on reddit.
everything is done by volunteers and donations and, if you don't like one instance; you can move onto any other one and still get a similar experience. i don't like letting other people decide what i can & can't see and who i can & can't talk to so i mostly stick to the instances that don't defederate with anybody like lemmy.ml and i use the block-people and block-communities features when i feel like i need them for myself.
the fediverse is the nickname given to [instances using] the pubg protocol
Haha I'm guessing that was meant to say ActivityPub
the original instances of lemmy all have a strong leftist bent
[Bonus info]
Reddit has a history of big events when a clump of subreddits get banned all at once when a newspaper reports on them. A lot of right-wing ones went to Voat and later *.win, and some socialist ones (notably /r/GenZedong) went to Lemmygrad, which became the largest federated instance at the time. /r/chapotraphouse also made their own fork, Hexbear, although while it was the largest, it wasn't federated with the rest for years. Most instances were either hard-left (e.g. Lemmygrad, Lemmy.ml, SLRPNK) or a slight left, but tge third most populous for a while was Wolfballs, a 'free speech' instance, de facto alt-right (US right-Libertarian style instance), which ended up defederated from almost all the others due to constant bigotry and rule breaking when posting on other instances. Wolfballs admin eventually shut it down before the Reddit API exodus because, among other reasons, they realized the neo-Nazis among their users were serious and not just trolling.
Overall, the few right-leaning instances are alienated from the bulk of federation and become islands or vaporize, but most just dismiss Lemmy or even the Fediverse at large as a left wing commie thing.
Haha I’m guessing that was meant to say ActivityPub
yes, that's what i get for going fast; thanks for the correction and the history lesson.
they’ve duplicated the censorship thing that reddit likes to do with defederations
I disagree that defederation is censorship, but no worries, we don't have to agree! However:
i switched to lemmy.ml since it doesn’t defederate with anybody
https://lemmy.ml/instances
If you switch to the "blocked" tab you'll see that this is absolutely not true.
One of my primary criteria when I needed to make a new lemmy account (due to problems with my original instance) was to be sure I picked an instance that had pre-emptively defederated from Threads. (as .ml does, but there are a lot more in that list)
If you switch to the “blocked” tab you’ll see that this is absolutely not true.
oh yes, i keep forgetting about the fascist and corporate shill instances; they were also the reason why i went with lemmy.ml and why i think it'll take longer for it to enshitify. thanks for correction.
Lemmy.ml is explicitly a Marxist Leninist instance of the Lemmy software. It's why it's called .ml. You can use a different instance if you aren't a Marxist Leninist. Lemmy.world is a Hitlerite instance.
Federation is censorship resistant, but each instance is still going to remove gross content for the sake of their users and instance culture. You can see removed content in the modlog, it's public for every instance running unmodified Lemmy.
As for why you need to copy/paste the sentence -- It sounds a lot like an anti-spam measure. Captchas and the like are extremely common, I'm surprised you find them novel. Are you asking this because you're planning a spam-attack and need to make sure the spam isn't removed? Your spam will be removed. While it's technically possible to go find, no one will care enough to do so.
To clarify, Hitler and Marx are not in any way related. Hitler was a fascist, racist dictator (like Trump and Putin). True Marxism would be if the government of the USA was formed by, and responsive to the working class. A Marxist government (true communism) has an obligation to take care of it's workers, not let them die because they can't afford health care.
It's a short explanation, but it's pretty much correct. Join any server, and change later if you're not comfortable.
I think it's incredibly stupid to call Trump or Putin dictators just because you don't like them. Fuck I even predicted Trump would win the popular vote this go around.
Whenever people try to imply hitler was in any way leftist I like to point out that the first mass privatizations were done by the nazis.
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Join us at lemm.ee. It’s as neutral as can be, the admin is cool, and they leave blocking to the users instead of just defederating outright.
neutral meaning "makes space for fascists and genocidal liberals"
Settlers and nazi bars go hand in hand to my understanding.
lmao at believing a site is "neutral". Just because you do not perceive your bias does not mean it is not present
Filters out conservatives pretty well and stops bots because it requires the user to read.
So um here's the thing.
The fediverse is a network of interconnected servers/instances that are independently hosted.
Within the fediverse, there's Lemmy
There are many different "servers" (I'm just gonna call it servers, instances is not a commonly used word) of Lemmy. Each have different owners. But they all run the Lemmy software of their servers.
The Lemmy software is an open source project, contributed by many different people who know how to code. The main developers believe in Marxism-Leninism, basically what countries like USSR and People's Republic of China claim to also follow this ideology (or at least they used to).
lemmy.ml is one of the first servers, run by the main developers.
So there, if you disagree with their ideology, you should probably use a different server.
Lemm.ee is a great neutral instance and the admin seems nice, you probably made a good choice choosing it over .ml. Glad to see you were not scared away from Lemmy by it. Welcome! It can get confusing, but it just takes time. It's a nice little place, overall and feels more like reddit used to be once.
"Neutral" here meaning "holds space for nazis, baby-fash, and other assorted vile-assed settlers".
A disturbing preponderance of settler-colonials who can't help but go to bat for theologically-motivated genociders every opportunity they get seemingly originating from .ee, .world, and .works; never mind the obnoxious sealions who never fail to come out when these descriptors are ascribed.
The many fascists on lemm.ee and their abhorrent, ahistoric, unfactual worldview being regularly celebrated is the reason for those claims. I constantly see the dumbest shit upvoted, the most trite clichés presented as novel insights. Actually reading an article is a rarity of the people on lemm.ee and I can count on one hand the amount of times I've met a lemm.ee user capable of introspection.
It's not just the spawning ground for the most basic neoliberal baby-brained takes on lemmy, it's also incredibly dull. It's like someone managed to gather all the worst redditors. Just a bunch of stupid, uneducated, unfunny, smug, idiotic assholes.
