- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmygrad.ml
Britain is expected to supply Storm Shadow missiles for use by Ukraine on targets inside Russia, now that the US president, Joe Biden, has agreed to do the same for the similar American long-range Atacms weapon.
Keir Starmer, the prime minister, said at the G20 summit that the UK recognised it needed to “double down” on its support for Ukraine, while diplomatic sources briefed they expected other European countries to follow the US lead.
...
Russia, however, accused the west of escalation and said that Biden risked adding “fuel to the fire” in Ukraine, and while Donald Trump remained silent on the issue, his son Don Jr accused the military industrial complex of wanting to get “world war three going”.
Storm Shadow missiles have a range of about 250km (155 miles), similar to the US Atacms, and have in the past been given to Kyiv by the UK and France to strike targets inside Ukraine’s internationally recognised borders.
But the US retained an effective veto on their use because it supplies a guidance system and repeated lobbying by the UK had failed to shift the US position, which has only begun to soften after the election victory of Donald Trump earlier this month.
...
Ukraine had also become increasingly exasperated with Britain on the issue of long-range missiles, complaining earlier this month that not only had there been no progress on their use inside Russia but that the UK had stopped supplying them at all.
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People in power grew up being teased with it, guess they want to see the fireworks before they pop off.
If we avoid a nuclear winter, the f.uk store will have plenty to purchase.
I mean, they just want to sell missiles and make that moolah. It's the man in Moscow who keeps threatening nuclear winter...
Maybe we should meet "the man in Moscow" (as if this has anything to do with one specific individual lol) in the middle then, and avoid us all getting vaporized.
Wold be nice.
I mean, I'm being facetious, it's obviously shitty that people are being fed into a meat grinder, but from where I'm sitting it seems like Ukraine is being used as a fertile market for armements and whoever makes up the bunch I charge of Russia's nukes are using them as an attempt to stop interference in their efforts to annexe a neighbour.
What's the chapo traphouse/ML take on this?
You're mostly correct except Russia obviously doesn't want to annex Ukraine, only the majority Russian parts that have been treated as second class citizens by Ukraine's nazi government. If they annexed all of it, they'd only create larger problems for themselves in the borders with NATO members; keeping Ukraine neutral is the whole point (and is beneficial for everyone except arms dealers as you pointed out)
Furthermore, here's a very interesting series of maps:
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Percentage of the population that are native Russian speakers.
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Support for Yanukovich, the president overthrown in 2014 and replaced by a government that immediately banned the use of Russian in offical documents and schools.
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Support for Volodomir Zelenski - or Vladimir Zelensky, as he would have been known in his first language, Russian - who ran against the coup leader on a platform of reconciliation with the separatist areas, right up until he won and someone with Hitler tattoos and a big gun explained his situation to him.
Show
And last but not least, a map of Russia's early warning RADAR system, which you may notice a slice of eastern Ukraine sits neatly under, making it the ideal launch point for a decapitation strike against Moscow.
So "annexing a neighbour" is trivially not what Russia wants, or is even capable of achieving. They want a demilitarized, denazified zone encompassing their most vulnerable border, a totally reasonable desire for any state, especially one facing down the lying, bloodthirsty savages of NATO. It will grab the areas of Russian speakers that it's actually possible to assimilate, bringing the territory under their internal security arrangements, and leave the majority-Ukrainian-speaking areas that would be impossible to control to some sort of Kiev-run rump state.
Thanks for actually explaining your position - I'm annoyed it got nixed because I actually wanted to read it properly!
You're a fucking moron, and whatever mod wants to remove this again do me a favor and ban me if this shithole is so full of liberalism
"Brigading" literally could you cry harder
Come on mods - it's fine for people to disagree/discuss/whatever.
Maybe I'm a moron and maybe this person is a tactless tankie.
I actually appreciated that there's some actual fucking discussion here.
We try.
So far, we've not defederated from hexbear.
When we have a thread that's 50% comments from another instance, upvoted solely by that instance, it's shit.
They could have done the reddit thing and accuse me of the GRIEVOUS crime of INCIVILITY. After all, I called a moron a moron
Is the correct narrative that poor old Russia is being pushed to use nukes by NATO operations which are attempting to stop the annexation of Ukraine?
If you were alive in the Cuban missile crisis you'd be saying some wild stuff like "Turkey NEEDED those nukes!"
Storm Shadow missiles have a range of about 250km (155 miles), similar to the US Atacms, and have in the past been given to Kyiv by the UK and France to strike targets inside Ukraine’s internationally recognised borders.
This depends. The Storm Shadow/SCALP missiles Ukraine has, have had their range restricted to approximately this so far to comply with missile export controls and treaties. The domestic UK and French variants have an unrestricted range of around 560km/350mi, and there have been talks of sending Storm Shadow/SCALP missiles without restrictions to Ukraine. However, such a range could put Moscow in range of Ukrainian strikes, so I don't think the US/UK or France will give Ukraine unrestricted Storm Shadow/SCALP missiles, it would be seen as too large of an escalation/an unacceptable escalation. But crazier things have happened in this war so far...
The way, it seems like Both Starmer and Biden are talking,
The current goal seem to be to convince Russia the war is too costly before Trump gets in.
If so. Honestly, I don't think Moscow is considered untouchable by them any more.
I think they may have decided, allowing a nation to think its capital is safe while it is attacking another nation's capital. It is just encouragement for that first nation to continue the war.
But like your comment. It's just an opinion/guess based on the rhetoric I am seeing.
I'll add if Russia is serious about MAD no longer applying. As they claim with their non nuke attack responding in a nuke response claims.
Then everything I have ever seen about the US and NATO's attitude. Once MAD is off the table, so is the concept of a world peace. NATO has depended on the no first strike agreement from its birth. Without that, the US is less likely to be rational when it comes to nukes.
Ahahahaha, they named their supermissile after the evil ninja from GI Joe?! What a bunch of dweebs.
GI Joe never made it to the UK. So unlikely any aged military top brass recognise it.
A bit like Americans naming chocolate bars, after UK names for women's underwear.
After almost three years Biden says now is the time to allow Ukraine to use long range missiles. Something they've been asking about since the start. Is it perhaps a play to embarrass Trump if he thinks about rescinding this permission. That would clearly put him in alignment with Putin. I didn't think Joe had it in him to think this strategically. Shame it is at the end of his presidency.
It's also lower risk for him than it is for European allies that will inevitably be called out and targeted by Russia. Are the other bordering and near bordering counties so willing to escalate the war?
